A hypothetical question

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As a cop who worked an off duty job at a local, sizable, hospital's emergency room ( one or two nights a month for around ten years...) I never expected much appreciation from hospital staff... until they needed you because of an unruly (understatement) patient or family member or because the casualties and family members of both sides of a gunfight ended up at the same hospital....

Given the nature of their jobs most healthcare professionals err on the side of forgiveness and seeing most of humanity as someone needing treatment.... I never expected anything else and simply dealt with whatever situation I found myself in (and was quite willing to yell for help - if my handheld could reach the dispatcher... since I never expected much help from the folks working in the hospital...).

Occasionally you can really find yourself in something that a Hollywood movie type would use in a film... One night as folks in the ER were trying to save the life of a young male gunshot victim ( I was off that night so this wasn't something I was in involved in...) a male nurse made a quick trip to the nearest mens room, which was on the far side of the waiting area for patients and family a few feet from the ER... As he walked into the facility he encountered a young man with his pants leg pulled up and un-taping a handgun from his leg... The nurse freaked and ran.. the young shooter also boogied... leaving the handgun on the floor of the mens room... When that piece was run through the firearms techs... they confirmed that it was the same gun that had been used to shoot the victim in the ER... Seems like the potential shooter had come to the hospital intending to finish the job... Just another night in paradise - and I learned long ago not to wish for any form of excitement on the job... You could get plenty even when you weren't looking for it. Glad I'm long out of that world...
 
Thank you for sharing your experience.

In my early 20s after my stint in the Army as medic, I worked at Los Angeles County/USC Medical Center and saw my share of harsher realities of life.

When gang members were taken to one of two ERs (General ER and Orthopedic ER), opposing gang members would often follow the ambulance to finish the fight in the ER. After numerous gun fights that ensued, LAC/USC MC decided to equip ER staff with bullet proof vests and shields. Now when a known gang member is enroute, new procedure is for the ER staff to don vests and armed security staff (LA County Sheriff Deputies) on standby.

Violence is not limited to ER. On the medical floor one night after a visit by "friends", a patient was found with a large dagger in the chest. Obviously, the patient was kept silent while being stabbed. Another night, after "friends" visit, a patient was found dead with a lethal injection into the IV.

My sister worked as Orthopedic ER nurse at the same Medical Center and told me stories of doctors having to do hand-to-hand combat with violent patients/gang members to where now they have armed security staff on ready standby for Orthopedic ER. When a nurse got raped in one of many parking garages patrolled by security staff (LA County Sheriff Deputies provide security service) Sheriff Deputies "quietly" told nurses to get guns and to carry them on person from parking garages to unit lockers for self protection as even they could not ensure nurses' personal safety. My sister for quite some time carried a loaded gun in her hand from the parking garage inside her lab coat pocket to the unit locker and back again AGAINST policy. Many nurses' sentiment was what good is hospital policy when you are raped/dead? Thankfully she eventually left Los Angeles, went back to school and now happily retired having run an independent insurance agency.

Having talked to staff from other Medical Centers and surveyed various hospitals around the state, incidents of violence/gang warfare are real and pose a clear and present danger to hospital staff, patients and visitors.

Armed guards is one thing. A hospital taking on liability for storing guns for its employees is another. I am not sure the article is talking about what I thought you were talking about.
Most hospitals my agency surveyed had security department who handled storage of their guns. Some hospitals, especially Critical Access Hospitals, had some upper management as designated back up response staff who were armed with training particularly military service. (These staff usually had their own offices and many used safes/gun cabinets, especially quick access types when not carrying guns on person)

We never saw "rank and file employees" who carried patient assignment being designated as response staff as their patients would have to be reassigned to other staff. If rank and file employees who carried patient assignment were found as designated as response staff during a survey, we would ensure there were policies & procedures for proper reassignment of patients before designated employees responded to internal/external threats.

What we did see instead was designated response staff as being first line supervisors and higher who did not carry patient assignments.
 
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I guarded federal prisoners as a contract security officer for the U.S. Marshals service and they, not the hospital staff, dictated our policy.
When I was a court officer and escorted the judge to do hospital arraignments we followed policy set by the correction officers or NYPD personnel.
Remember that if something bad happens it is your ass that will be mowed.
 
I guarded federal prisoners as a contract security officer for the U.S. Marshals service and they, not the hospital staff, dictated our policy.

When I was a court officer and escorted the judge to do hospital arraignments we followed policy set by the correction officers or NYPD personnel.
Remember that if something bad happens it is your ass that will be mowed.
+1

on hospital duty you have one armed officer, and one unarmed officer(handler). The discussion amongst the coworkers is where should the armed officer be positioned, in the room, or outside the room ... We are talking about a full size duty weapon, two reloads, on a duty belt.

Admin's stance is, it's their building so we follow their rules.

What is your opinions on this.
I have found during surveys that hospital administration's position can change quickly after presented with facts and questions that point out their deficient practices which put patients/staff/visitors at risk.

It is the job of Risk Management/Quality Management (In cooperation with head of Security) to constantly conduct risk assessments and forward recommendations to hospital administrator to resolve these deficient practices/risk factors.

If hospital administrator/administration's position is not sound, perhaps because they are misinformed or are pushed by ulterior motive of saving money and other factors (May be PR image?). But cost savings and PR image are only good until something bad happens and hospital gets sued for wrongful death and all the money savings and public sentiment are gone as many hospital lawsuits are settled out of court to save bad publicity - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-hypothetical-question.854766/page-2#post-11204070

And perhaps it is why increasing number of hospitals are going with armed security staff as their resolution option to address internal/external threats.

And I believe threat assessment and recommendations made by security experts (and not hospital administration) are better in ensuring the safety and security of patients/staff/visitors.

Remember that if something bad happens it is your ass that will be mowed.
Absolutely. If the internal/external threat event has positive outcome, the security staff become heroes.

If the outcome is negative, you will be told, "That's why we paid you, to provide safety and security ... Why did you fail in your job? ... You are fired!"

If I was in OP's situation, I would request a proper risk assessment and re-evaluation of resolution options to "properly and effectively" address any risk factors identified and forward that to hospital administration. I have a feeling once administration is "properly" informed, they will make the proper decision to ensure the safety and security of their patients, staff and visitors.
 
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Having been thru one of the local ER's a couple of times in the last year. I was shocked to see a metal detector and forced to go thru it before entry into the ER. The hospital is Not posted and they won't even allow a pocket knife into the ER. I got caught the first time and felt so bad I didn't want to make the round trip trek back to the car. Fortunately they gave it back to me when I left. BTW, knives are not considered weapons in Arkansas until deployed for use as one.

Entry into the general portion of the hospital is not controlled - Only the ER.

Maybe Spats can elaborate on this situation.
 
As the DPOA for a friend who had a stroke some years back, I visited quite a few hospitals in the L.A. area before I thankfully moved away, since she was sadly frequently hospitalized. (Rather miraculously she is still hanging in there, and I now carry out my duties by phone and fax.) As time went on I observed all the hospitals increasing security. By the time I left a little over a year ago, among other measures all of them had burly uniformed armed guards staffing the receptionist positions. One that I visited even provided an armed guard to escort me to the parking garage after visiting at night.
 
As the DPOA for a friend who had a stroke some years back, I visited quite a few hospitals in the L.A. area before I thankfully moved away, since she was sadly frequently hospitalized. (Rather miraculously she is still hanging in there, and I now carry out my duties by phone and fax.) As time went on I observed all the hospitals increasing security. By the time I left a little over a year ago, among other measures all of them had burly uniformed armed guards staffing the receptionist positions. One that I visited even provided an armed guard to escort me to the parking garage after visiting at night.

Armed guards are still not the norm in my part of the country.
 
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They are no more qualified to tell police officers how to do their job than police officers are qualified to tell them how to do theirs.

Strong opinions and emotions are no substitute for knowledge, training and expertise.What makes them think they can dictate anything to the officers? Has it really come to the point that medical professionals can tell law enforcement officers what to do? Guess I'll start recommending that people call their doctor instead of a lawyer if they get into trouble with the law from now on.

You'd be surprised at how much this has become the case. Law enforcement is very caught up in the "don't make waves" mindset these days.
 
You are right about that. I sure wouldn't live in a place like that.
Which was a big part of why I left. If at least regular people could get a concealed carry permit there I might have stayed out of inertia, but having to take my life in my hands every time I stepped out the door motivated me to overcome that tendency.
 
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