AB 2714 will outlaw mail order and online ammo sales in CA

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SIGarmed

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You can thank the elitist liberal author Assemblyman Torrico. I can't spell out the words I feel for this person on this forum.

This hasn't passed everything in the legislature yet, but it may. Please keep an eye on this bill.

Californian's you need to contact your reps. You also should contact the author since he surely doesn't give rip about us, and tell him how you feel.

Assemblyman Alberto Torrico

Capitol Office District Office
State Capitol
P.O. Box 942849
Sacramento, CA 94249-0020
(916) 319-2020
(916) 319-2120 fax

Local office:

39510 Paseo Padre Parkway
Suite 280
Fremont, CA 94538
(510) 440 - 9030
(510) 440 - 9035 fax

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_2701-2750/ab_2714_cfa_20060509_162300_asm_comm.html

Date of Hearing: May 10, 2006

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
Judy Chu, Chair

AB 2714 (Torrico) - As Amended: April 25, 2006

Policy Committee: Public
SafetyVote: 4-2

Urgency: No State Mandated Local Program:
Yes Reimbursable: No

SUMMARY

This bill prohibits ammunition from being delivered pursuant to
a retail transaction unless the purchaser presents - in person -
bona fide evidence of age and identity to the seller of the
ammunition. Violation of this requirement is a misdemeanor,
punishable by up to six months in county jail and/or a fine of
up to $1,000. A subsequent violation is punishable by up to 1
year in county jail and/or a fine of up to $2,000.

Because this bill would require face-to-face identification, it
would prohibit on-line and
mail-order ammunition sales.

FISCAL EFFECT

1)Negligible state cost.

2)Unknown, likely minor nonreimbursable local incarceration
costs, offset to a degree by increased fine revenue.

COMMENTS

1)Rationale . The author's intent is to end mail-order and
on-line ammunition sales by requiring a person-to-person
transaction with identification.


According to the author, "Ammunition purchases over the
Internet are easily made and neither the purchasers nor the
sellers are currently tracked by the State. Furthermore,
Internet companies have been found not verifying the identity
and age of ammunition purchasers before shipping ammunition,








AB 2714
Page 2

and online sellers have a harder time guaranteeing that buyers
meet all the qualifications to comply with local and state
law."

2)Jurisdictional and Practical Considerations . As California
authorities generally lack jurisdiction to arrest or prosecute
people who commit crimes in other states, the misdemeanor
penalties created by this measure would apply only to parties
making on-line or mail-order sales from within California.
Moreover, enforcement would appear to be problematic, as it is
not clear how authorities would know if a person bought
ammunition on-line or via e-mail.

3)Current state and federal law makes it illegal for any person,
corporation, or gun dealer to sell ammunition to a person age
under 18 years of age or to sell handgun ammunition to a
person under the age of 21.

4)Opposition . The Outdoor Sportsmen's Lobby of California and
the National Association of Firearms Retailers contend this
bill serves no practical purpose, and creates another
regulatory hurdle. According to the Firearms Retailers,
"Existing state and federal law prohibits the sale of
ammunition to persons who are under age, including
criminalizing the sale of handgun ammunition to anyone under
the age of 21. There is, therefore, already adequate
motivation for retailers to check the identification of a
person who appears to be too young to lawfully purchase
ammunition. This has long been a standard business practice
for retailers."


Analysis Prepared by : Geoff Long / APPR. / (916) 319-2081
 
lol.. when was ordering ammo online ever a problem.. what does this guy hope to accomplish by outlawing online orders?.. ridiculous. I guess this is the way these politicians justify their jobs. They just sit there making crap up.. doesnt have to make sense.

Ammunition purchases over the
Internet are easily made and neither the purchasers nor the
sellers are currently tracked by the State.


***.. I can walk into wal-mart and buy 1000rds in cash. Is that tracked by the state?
 
Little by little they ban the seemingly small stuff until you have nothing left.
I urge all members in California to contact their Representive and tell them what you think of this.
we did that here in AZ for a pro gun law and they noticed.
 
On-line orders

None of the states like on-line orders.They can't collect taxes on them if from another state.
If you buy at Wally World,you at least have to pay Sales Tax if not other taxes.
What does a WWB of 100rds. at Wal-Mart cost in Kalif.?
 
How can they stop interstate trade? I mean, Virginia tried to stop importation of out of state trash and got slapped by the federal courts. How is this different?

(Maybe I need to take some law classes or something. This is not the stuff that gets covered in civics classes.)
 
This would create a monopoly in areas that have one gunstore or none which is worse. They could charge whatever they want. What about more off the wall calibers that you have to order online? How would you buy them? You also can't count on walmart for our ammo needs, they could to decide to quit selling ammo and then what? Mark
 
Damn it, I knew this was coming. Probably won't pass the first time, but they'll keep bringing it back until it does. I doubt Arnold would sign this, but the next Dem. governor would in a heartbeat.

Next comes revival of the 10 cents/round ammo tax, followed by making it a crime for individuals to "import" ammunition into the state. Shortly thereafter, you'll hear about the CA DOJ warning dealers in NV and AZ not to sell ammo to CA residents.

These socialist scum politicians know exactly what they're doing and it has nothing to do with crime or safety.
 
I can't say for California, however, Minnesota has a law that one must claim the sales tax not paid on internet purchases and pay it. Of course, few people actually do.
 
lol.. when was ordering ammo online ever a problem.. what does this guy hope to accomplish by outlawing online orders?.. ridiculous. I guess this is the way these politicians justify their jobs. They just sit there making crap up.. doesnt have to make sense.

You don't get it - once CA makes a few calls to ammo suppliers threatening them with lawsuits they will quit selling to CA. You'd best get a Dillon and a bunch of bullets, powder and primers - or move to a free state.
 
Sounds to me like it would really skrew interstate commerce over by doing such.

FISCAL EFFECT

1)Negligible state cost.
Well, I guess they may (accidently) be right on that part. There would be added fiscal burdeon on the county who will need to pay officers to enforce the law, judges to hear cases, DA's to prosecute the cases, and possibly public defenders to defend individuals. If any of those are state and not county positions, there would be fiscasl affect on the state. Also, incarceration is not cheap. It runs about$14,000 per year, per inmate or more.

***.. I can walk into wal-mart and buy 1000rds in cash. Is that tracked by the state? –crazed ss
I doubt it would be, but don't some locales have tracking requirements, like LA? I'm in Connecticut, so I have no idea how it works out there, and I don't really care to find out. I purchased some ammo recently from a Sports Authority store that still had some left, and store policy is to have a log with the ID info (DL No., Address, ammo type and quantity) written in it. I assume they would not object to any cops request to examine the book. It is often left unattended on a coutner for anyone to view.

None of the states like on-line orders.They can't collect taxes on them if from another state. –ken grant
Yes the can. In CT, you are required to pay in 'use tax' if you purchase something or have a service performed in another state. It is reported on your state income tax return. If the item is $300 plus, you need to report exactly what, when and who. I assumed this was pretty universal??
 
Not that I agree with this law... because I don't..... but, it certainly would be good for my business because WHOLESALE online/telephone transactions still appear to be OK.


Stuff like this kinda makes you want to move to Arizona where you can still get 30-round magazines and fully-auto firearms (and 50BMG too!).
 
Too, many damn politicians who have, too, much time in their hands, coming up with retarded proposals to justify their existence in gov't. These people should be sent to Iraq and Afghanistan to clear minefields.:mad:
 
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