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Accurate semi

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Apuesto, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Apuesto

    Apuesto Member

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    I'm looking to get into purchasing an accurate semi that I can use for club shoots and perhaps PPC or similar competition shoots. I'm looking to be able to shoot offhand under an inch and 25 yards and under and inch from a rest at 50.

    I have a couple of very accurate wheelguns but my knowledge on semi's is somewhat limited. From research the Sig 210's seems to be a good candidate.

    I'd prefer a pistol that shoots .38 wadcutters due to the fact that I am set up to reload them, but I am open to 9mm & .32 sw long too. Anything that's not too obscure and expensive to reload.

    I'd like to keep to $1,500 or lower, but I will spend more if that is what is required.

    Thanks folks
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  2. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Few guns will shoot as well as you want. You'll need to contact some of the best gunsmiths for that level of performance.

    for 38 special, ask Clark Custom guns: https://clarkcustomguns.com/

    for something in 9mm or 38 Super, check with Chambers Custom: https://chamberscustom.com/
     
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  3. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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  4. 1MoreFord

    1MoreFord Member

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    Few handguns will shoot that well and ever fewer people can shoot that well.
     
  5. Obturation
    • Contributing Member

    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Ar pistol can do that.
     
  6. carsten1911

    carsten1911 Member

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    Howdy Apuesto,

    I do not get why you split your requirements for accuracy between shooting offhand and from a rest.
    You look for intrinsic accuracy...which can only be verified by a good machine rest or a shooter that will shoot as accurate as a machine rest. What you can do with such a accurate pistol is solely depending on your form and training.

    1500$ will get you nowhere with a requirement of 1" at 50 yards. (Given that we are talking about 5-or-more-shot groups ...)
    Even the most experienced bullseye pistol tuners give only 1.5" accuracy guarantees at 50 yards. So you need to find one of these and accept their price.

    Good luck for your quest!
    Carsten
     
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  7. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    CZ shadow 2 should be able to do that out of the box. Or the CZ75SP-01 with some custom work. The hardware is one thing, under an inch @ 25yds offhand?....that's typically a software issue for me:oops: I know that my stock SP-01 will get close to 1in groups at 25yds, me on the other hand.....
     
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  8. Apuesto

    Apuesto Member

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    Meant to post 15 yard offhand - fat fingers.

    I had a quick look on gunbroker and noticed prices were all over the place. Is there a better and a not quite so good versions of the CZ Shadow 2?
     
  9. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    There is the Shadow 2, the Shadow tactical orange(mostly cosmetic upgrade I believe) CZ also has the Czechmate...which if I recall is a competition setup. On the other hand, they're all based on the CZ75 SP-01. Those start at about $550. Then you can get Cajun Gun Works to do all sorts of upgrades. Take a look at gun.deals for pricing. Gunbroker, armslist...they will be all over
    https://gun.deals/
    https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/Cz75 sp-01
    https://cajungunworks.com/
     
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  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I can't be very encouraging.
    CAVEAT: I am not a precision shooter, all I know is what I read and what I see the good shots doing.

    I have seen brag pictures of one inch 50 yard Ransom Rest targets but gun and ammo must be just right. And expensive, far more than $1500.

    Not many shops building .38 Special automatics any more. I see mention of somebody named "Jon" on Bullseye L, which is where you should be looking.
    https://www.bullseyeforum.net/
    The late Jerry Keefer was accurizing Model 52s and Clark has a 10 twist barrel like he used.
    Everybody that finds a Jim Clark .38 Conversion seems pleased.
    I don't know what a Sig P240 .38 will really do, but it is certainly a fine gun.
    Frankly, a "very accurate wheelgun" will beat out all but the very finest automatic.

    Other calibers: There is a lot of work being done on 9mm target pistols, mostly 1911, but also Beretta.
    I have not seen a tiny group from a CZ.
    Thread on Bullseye L mentions .38 Super and Super Comp loaded lightly to emulate .38 Special.
    https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13267-cf-pistol-options-question-1911-in-38-special

    I have read that the Pardini .32 ACP when loaded with Hornady XTPs can be a 50 yard gun. Their .32 S&W Long wadcutter guns are optimized for 25 meters, which would be fine for you at 25 or 15 yards.

    And if you want to get the best for less, I have an elderly High Standard .22 that has actually delivered 1" groups at 50 yards with its best barrel and ammo. And probably worth $1500 max.

    One inch at even 15 yards offhand is, of course, on you, even with the very best pistol. Note that the NRA 50 foot slow fire target has a Ten Ring of 0.90" diameter. So a perfectly centered 1" group will be a 100% score.
     
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  11. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I'm not a bullseye guy or otherwise into extreme pistol precision, but my immediate reaction is that "under an inch at 50 yards" is about the theoretical accuracy limit of a tilting-barrel handgun. That's <2 MOA. Until the last 15-20 years, very few service rifles or hunting rifles could do better than 2 MOA, even with a fixed barrel and sights in fixed relationship to it.
     
  12. entropy

    entropy Member

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    S&W 41. Hey, you didn't say not rimfire.
    Walther OSP .32
    S&W 52 is the only semi I know of thet shoots .38 WC, but it is not a World-class target pistol like the other two.


    What you seem to be looking for is an ISSP Free pistol.
    Morini and Hammerli dominate this field. All Olypmic winners since 2002 have used Morini CM84E's

    http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=FITPMO
     
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  13. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    The spread between your price expectations and what a precision pistol costs is a bit wide.

    Take a look at what Pardini pistols cost:

    https://www.pardiniguns.com/store/index.php?cPath=1_9&osCsid=sg50k5umt71tprtglfc5j0gaq2

    I have seen a number of Pardini pistols at Bullseye matches, I don't see the type with the interchangeable uppers at the supplied web page, they are similar to this one: https://www.pardiniguns.com/hp-hpe/ Still, you are going to need to bump up your expectations if you hope to find a new one at your price point.

    Might find used. I was offered a used Feinwerkbau for that amount, but the grips did not fit my hands, and new grips are around $400.00 :eek: Pass!!!

    12feinwerkbau-aw93.jpg
     
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  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Most any gun in that price range will shoot better than most people. Ammo makes a big difference also.

    There are just to may guns to list. What works for me or someone else may not work for you.
    Out of the box the Sig would be fine unless you want some "race gun"
     
  15. Apuesto

    Apuesto Member

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    I don't mind a fixed barrel design.
     
  16. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Then see Slamfire's post.
     
  17. Apuesto

    Apuesto Member

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    Some further clarification

    My shooting is mostly for fun but also to keep me "on the ball" for hunting and I will always be shooting two handed. Ergo, bullseye guns with one handed grips is a no no. I have a couple of revolvers that I can manage 1 inch at 15 yards on a good day and a scoped Freedom Arms which shoots 1" at 50 yards off bags all day long. I'd like a semi to shoot simply for the sake of adding a bit of variety, and I would need it to be at least almost as accurate as not to annoy myself. (i.e. it needs to be a few steps above the normal run of the mill semi's sold in stores).

    Seems there is a larger gap in accuracy between semi's and revolvers than I had realized?
     
  18. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Man oh man those GT9's are pretty.
     
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  19. entropy

    entropy Member

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  20. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Not really, I would undertake to find a 1" centerfire automatic... but not for $1500.
     
  21. carsten1911

    carsten1911 Member

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    One inch at fifty yards?

    I would need to be present and see with my own two eyes to believe that.

    Until then it´s "not until the sun sets in the east" for me.

    Carsten
     
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  22. carsten1911

    carsten1911 Member

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    You certainly are aware that you can take off Olympic style one handed grips and simply screw neutral/ two-handed grips on a pistol, are you?

    Carsten
     
  23. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    Well maybe not quite, my point being that even from a bag rest, even the most accurate pistol is going to struggle to do 2moa due to shooter influence...well, this shooter anyway. But, I think a tuned CZ from a mechanical rest, indoors, with a cold bore, under a full moon, at high tide...should get reasonably close to that:D
     
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  24. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator

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    My Chambers PPC 1911 in 9x19 will shoot ten shot, one inch groups at 50 from a ransom rest with Sierra 115s and Power Pistol. Rested and/or braced keeping shots inside the X-Ring is very possible as long as I dont screw it up.

    The jury is out on the new Sig 210s, but the old ones are very accurate as are the HK P-7s.

    If informal plinking is your goal with a $1500 budget, a CZ Shadow II or a tuned 1911 will work. If your ok with rimfire, a Smith 41 or a 1911 with a Marvel or Nelson conversion will easily get you small groups with decent ammo.

    10 shots at 50 yards.
    1YnZ2wC.jpg


    60 shots at 50 meters at the Olympic Training Center with a rifle. About a 3/8 inch group.
    y37muRN.jpg
     
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  25. Apuesto

    Apuesto Member

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    Thanks for your post Hoser. That is a very nice gun you have. Now at least I know my requirements ARE within the realms of possibility, albeit but at a higher cost than I would like to spend on what will essentially be a practice gun. Hell, my hunting guns cost less than that!

    I've decided to start off with one of those New Hampshire built P210's and see how close I can get with a couple of tweaks.
     
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