Advice Sought on Particulars of New Ruger Revolver

[Midnight]

I am in the market for a .44 magnum. It will be used 98% for fun at the range, but I want it to be capable of hunting if I so desired. I have pretty much decided on a Ruger Super Blackhawk since it is a proven revolver, and is cheaper than S&Ws. These are the things I am undecided on:

1. Bisley versus Standard frame
I'm leaning toward the Bisley for better recoil absorption and sleeker looks. I also like the rollmark on the unfluted cylinder. Does anyone have a closeup of that rollmark I can view?

2. Satin Stainless versus Blued
I'm almost always a stainless guy, but something seems "right" about blued revolvers. Opinions?

3. Barrel length.
Well, obviously this won't be for concealment, so I'm thinking the 7.5" model. Does anyone have any experience with the handling of the 10.5" model? Seems like it would be a little unwieldly. However, my "more is better" philosophy leads me to want the most barrel I can get.

Thanks for opinions on these matters and any others that might come up.

 

[Midnight]

BTW, here is what I have learned about Ruger revolvers this morning. Please correct me if anything is erroneous.

1. Blackhawks come in most popular calibers besides .44 mag
2. Super Blackhawks were designed around .44 mag, and only come in that caliber
3. All Super Blackhawks have adjustable sights
4. Vaquero's are essentially the same as blackhawks/SBHs, but don't have adjustable sights. They are also available with case colored frames (the type I don't like)
5. In addition to Vaquero's and SBHs, there is a model called the "Bisley" that is a slight modification of these.
a) it is available as the Bisley SBH, or Bisley Vaquero
b) Bisleys have a different grip (supposedly more comfortable), rounded trigger guard (doesn't beat up your finger), and a different hammer (supposedly more confortable). They are supposed to absorb recoil better, and be nicer to shoot.
c) Bisleys have a neat rollmark on their cylinders
6. Blackhawk = single action, Redhawk = double action
7. Redhawks come in .44 mag and 45 LC
8. Super Redhawks come in all our favorite flavors, .44 mag, .480 Ruger, and .454 Casull
a) SRHs have a larger frame than regular RHs, other than caliber, thats the only difference I can find
9. There is a subset of Redhawks and Blackhawks called the "RH Hunter" and "BH Hunter." All this means is that they are predrilled for scope rings.
a) All SRHs are predrilled for scope rings.

 

[jjmorgan64]

Gotta love the Rugers,

One thing none of the Rugers are drilled for rings, the models listed have cutouts for Rugers scope rings to clamp on to.

 

[41 Redhawk]

SRH has a different grip design and the action is different than the RedHawk. The RedHawk uses the main spring to serve as the trigger return spring whereas the SRH has a seperate trigger return spring. Some folks say this results in a better trigger on the SRH.

 

[Jim March]

The fact that you're not put off by a 10" tube says you don't mind a "muzzle heavy" handgun.

That in turn means you need a "Hunter".

The "Hunter variant" of the SuperBlackHawk is the only Ruger SA with integral scope ring mounts on the barrel (like a SuperRedHawk) and the Hunters come with 1" rings. You can swap those for 30mm if necessary.

The original Hunter has a SuperBlackHawk larger-size grip frame, except that the trigger guard is round instead of squareback. The hammer on those is the SBH type. They're stainless-only, no scrollmark engraving (sorry), and originally came in 44Mag only. A special run the same way but 41Maggie is in the works.

New for this year: same 44Mag gun, 'cept they've "Bisley-ized it" with the Bisley grip frame and hammer, no other changes. THIS is the gun you want, and what the Hunter should have been all along. Ruger basically didn't understand at first quite what they'd done with the Bisley grip frame, because their hottest factory calibers are the 44Mag and 45LC. Once guys like John Linebaugh started putting Bisley grip frames on their psycho 475 and 500 calibers, the difference in recoil control between the Bisley and all prior Ruger grips became blindingly obvious .

The heavier-barrel Hunters are getting a great rep for accuracy. I've never seen one tested that couldn't do about 1" at 25 yards and some are doing better.

 

[Midnight]

Thanks for that info. I've been looking around the Ruger site all day, but I am a little confused on which model it is you are recommending. Can you link me to it on thier site?

Thanks

 

[MK11]

I love the 7.5 inch Super Blackhawk, it's got great balance. The only complaint I have is that squared off Dragoon-style trigger guard. It tends to dig into your fingers with a two-handed hold.

I'd also second the Hunter, it's gorgeous.

 

[Jim March]

Here's the original hunter:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=860&return=Y

Note that the grip frame is unique to the Hunter: it's the same size as the "Dragoon squareback" grip frame, but with a round triggerguard like the smaller Blackhawk/Vaquero grip frame (which is also used on all SBHs that have 4&3/4" and 5.5" barrels).

Still with me? I mention this because a lot of people love the bigger grip but detested that squareback trigger guard, so the Hunter original grip frame has a lot of value on the used parts market. You can sell it (with the "gray grips") for enough money to buy new Bisley grip parts.

If you have or buy this "Original Hunter type grip", some rubber grips will need a bit of alteration to work with the round trigger guard - you have to use black "shoe goo" or similar rubbery filler to fill the gap between the triggerguard and grip. Not a big deal.

Here's a good review of that first model, with pics of the scope rings in use:

http://www.gunblast.com/SBHunter.htm

Note their accuracy testing!

Here's the same gun in 41Mag, a special-production run:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=863&return=Y

And here's the flavor I like - same 44Mag as original, but "Bisleyized":

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=862&return=Y

This grip frame is 100% identical to a Bisley grip frame and is fully grip-compatible with no tweaking.

You want a hunting handgun in 44Mag? That is IT . None finer this side of a $1300+ Freedom Arms.

 

[dairycreek]

JIm March gave you great advice!

Just got a SBH Hunter with the Bisley grip ($519.00). It is absolutely terrific in every way. Good shooting

 

[Frohickey]

Redhawks and Super Redhawks are double action.

Blackhawk, Super Blackhawks and Bisley/Vaqueros are single action.

Super Redhawks, IMO, soak up more recoil from heavy loads with their rubber grips. And the grips are pretty comfortable too.

 

[BlkHawk73]

The SBH Hunter will also be available on a very limited basis froma particular distributor chambered in .45LC. Expect to see them towards the end of the summer. (already got mine reserved and it's likely another in .41 will follow.)

There are also standard Redhaws that are available with scope-mounting notches on the barrel rib (ala SBH Hunter) and supplied with rings. These modles are the RH-44R and KRH-44R. Just another model to consider.

That said...

I have a few of Ruger's SAs including a SBH. All are comfortable to shoot regardless of design. The Bisley style does roll better and thus presents itself as "softer" to shoot.

 

[Jim March]

Frohickey: have you tried a Bisley?

Every report I've seen, and the limited trying of other people's guns I've done, says that a 39oz Bisley 44Mag will be more comfortable to shoot than 48oz+ worth of rubber-grip DA wheelgun.

The Bisley "rolls in the hand". If you made the same grip out of rubber, or checkered the wood grip, it won't roll right and will hurt like hell. (Checkered Bisley grips are available, for those people shooting CAS/SASS low-power loads, or 357Mag power levels or lower.)

The Ruger Bisley grip isn't really a clone of the Colt Bisley. In the 1930s, Elmer Keith and another guy whose name escapes me collaborated on a custom SAA called the "Number 5". It used the Colt Bisley hammer and trigger, but they altered the grip. This was the period after Keith blew the hell out of an SAA in 45LC with a 300grain projectile and switched to heavy-loading the 44Spl to near-Magnum levels (because at that time, 44Spl brass was a lot stronger than 45LC balloon-head brass). Keith built that grip to handle recoil and MAN that ol' cat knew what he was doing.

When Ruger copied the #5 grip, it was among the smartest things they've ever done. It let them produce real-world-practical SA wheelguns that outperform DA wheelguns of the same weight class in terms of recoil control. And the fixed-in-place cylinder gives you better inherent accuracy.

There's only one flaw with that Hunter: with VERY heavy hunting loads, the base pin (heavy pin the cylinder spins on, the cylinder's "axle") might jump loose.

There's two cures: for $17 Wolff sells a complete set of springs including a heavier cylinder pin latch spring to keep the pin in. Also in the kit: a lighter trigger return spring and a selection of mainsprings, all user-installable. Ruger SAs are incredibly simple to wrench on. Spend $20 on a set of SA gunsmithing screwdrivers from Brownells.

For $25 - $35 depending on options (head shape), Belt Mountain sells replacement base pins that are a tighter fit, sometimes improve accuracy, usually reduce cylinder play and most come with a hex set screw to keep the pin from jumping under recoil.

A lot of people do both upgrades. Either one will eliminate base pin jump.

Those tweaks are all that gun will possibly need.

 

[Baron Holbach]

I have a blue 5.5 inch Vaquero .44 magnum in blue, with the conventional imitation white grip frame. If I were to do it all over again, I would have purchased a stainless, 4.5 inch Super Blackhawk with the Bisley grip frame.

 

[aug e. dog]

I own a 10" Ruger SBH. There's no doubt Mr. March knows way more about handguns than I, and I'm sure the Hunter model is superior to the regular SBH in many ways. But you have to decide for yourself whether the extra $150-200 is worth it to you. For what its worth, when I first shot my SBH with the original grips, it was cutting my hand. However, once I put rubber grips on it, the recoil became manageable and the cutting stopped. I now enjoy shooting the SBH and am beginning to learn how to control it. My accuracy with it also seems to improve each time out. I do not find the 10" barrell too unwieldly. The SBH can also be modified later if you want to put a scope on it.

 

[biglmbass]

regarding Bisley vs. DA shooting comfort...

This is just my two cents, so take it for what it's worth.

Having tried them all, I'll have to agree w/ Jim that the Bisley is the most comfortable to shoot especially w/ the hard kicking, heavy hunting weight bullets. Just a couple of weeks ago I was shooting my 5.5" SBH Bisley model w/ handloaded 300 grain XTPs and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it's recoil was quite tolerable. The same load in my 7.5" Hunter model was not bad either, but still I think as far as comfort goes, the Bisley wins even w/ its shorter barrel.

For comparision...
My S&W 629 Classic DX, 6.5"barrel, w/ Leupold 2X scope mounted, is a rip snorting beast w/ the aformentioned 300 gr XTP load. This big DA just handles the recoil completely differently.

If at all possible, go to a shooting range that will let you try a few rounds through each of the guns you have interest in. Good luck in your decision. If I was in your shoes, I'd probably lean towards the Ruger Hunter model in the caliber of your choice.

 

[Frohickey]

Jim March: Yes, I've tried the Bisley. Mine is a 5.5 inch barrel, and it helps in recoil management because it rolls in your hand. The only drawback is that its a single action.

An updated Ruger Redhawk, with rubber grips, ala Super Redhawk would be even better. You get double action swiftness, especially if you really need that critter dead.

 

[444]

I think you are making a great choice by going with a .44 mag in a Ruger SBH. There are a number of variations and you can't really go wrong. If I was looking for one and could get any one I wanted, I would thnk about it carefully and then buy exactly what Jim suggested. I think it combines all the best features Ruger has to offer in one beautiful package.
I have owned a SBH for years. I always considered it one of the must haves of any real collection of guns. Mine is the standard, run of the mill, 7 1/2" Stainless model. I got mine before all the cool variations came out. It has proven to be a very accurate and strong handgun. I own quite a few handguns, but this one is certainly among my favoirites.
I only have one problem with the long barrels; it makes it hard to carry in a belt holster. The problem occurs when you try to sit down. I don't care if it is on the ground or in the vehicle, the barrel hits the ground and the tries to push the gun up over your head along with your belt. I have carried my 7 1/2" over many miles in several states and this is an issue every time. I usually end up trying to find a rock to sit on that will allow the gun to be off to the sdie. In the truck, I end up having to twist the barrel forward which in turn tightens my belt so that my eyes pop out. I guess you can get around this by buying a shoulder rig, but that option doesn't appeal to me personally.

For what it is worth I own the following Ruger single actions: Single Six, Single Six Bisley, .30 Carbine BH, .357/9mm Convertible Blackhawk, .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible Blackhawk, and the SHB.
I also own a .357 Redhawk.

 

[Midnight]

Well, after all that it appears I have worked out a trade for Don Gwinn's blued Taurus M44 with 6.5" ported barrel.

 

[Jim March]

45LC hunter? HECK ya . Probably not "Bisley-ized" but we can hope.

Even if it ain't, the Hunter "Dragoon size but round triggerguard" grip parts are so valuable on the used market you can probably straight-up trade for Bisley parts. Betcha any of the Ruger gunsmith houses like Alpha Precision, Clark's or similar would do a straight-up trade with ya.

The total parts cost (new) to "Bisley-ize" a New Model anything is about what, $225? or less? Brownell's has a "Bisley conversion kit minus grip panels" for $175, that's the grip frame, trigger, hammer and misc small bits. Maybe a bit more for stainless, I don't recall offhand. There's a link to it in the "SA parts list thread":

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80872 (it started on TFL and continues on THR )