After the Shooting is over Pt II..

[Edward429451]

The other After the Shooting is over thread kind of had its own direction and I didn't want to hijack it but on a related topic...

OK, he's down and you've decided for whatever reason to render assisstance to the BG you shot. What the heck can you do for a gunshot wound? I'm no medic. I took the First Aid/CPR training 20 some years ago when I went thru that OPOTC training in Ohio but I can't really think of anything besides direct pressure on the wound and make sure his airway is clear. He'll have internal damage that just cannot be addressed in the field.

Here's a spin for ya'. Same scenario as described in the original thread. BG confronts you (at home), weapon visible, shots are exchanged, BG is seriously down but not out, one of your family members took a seemingly obviously non-fatal hit from the BG. Periphrial through and through belly shot say. The BG obviously needs more attention than your family member if he is to survive. Do you leave your wounded & upset family member to try and save the BG's life? If you do not, BG dies for sure. Family member could use spiritual/emotional support even if not fatal wound. Hmmm.

It's a given for me. I stopped the BG. I'm done with him. My family member needs me right now, non fatal wound or not. But the BG will DIE. So? He shouldn't have attacked me/us.

 

[Valkman]

The only reason I'd give medical help to the BG in any case is to show how I wasn't trying to kill him at the civil trial. Looks very good there. In the scenario you describe my family member would get the help of course, keeping an eye on the BG to see if he needs another "shot".

 

[Edward429451]

Good Answer!!!

 

[CWL]

Here's one reason not to:
You shot a BG, he's lying there curled up and you can see blood so you know he/she's been hit. You render assistance by opening his shirt to view the wound and hopefully stop the bleeding. -OOPs you have no training and just moved an injured person who has your bullet lodged near/in his spine. Results, damaged spinal column, paralysed BG who now has grounds to sue you when he previously did not while you were justifiably defending yourself.

Here's another,
You shot a BG and run to assist after he/she's down. In detecting and applying pressure onto bullet would you press down on expanded JHP bullet in BGs COM. Results, sharp part nicks artery and BG bleeds out and dies.

Another,
You shoot BG in head, touching and manipulating anywhere near the head can cause more damage than if left alone. Congrats, BGs family sues you for causing brain damage to BG.

Another,
You shoot BG multiple times (as should be done) and run up to help. How?

Here's another,
You press both hands onto BG's wound to help stop blood, BG comes around/stabilizes long enough draw a knife and shank you in the guts.
(Ask any EMTs how cooperative BGs are).

 

[MessedUpMike]

If the BG is going to die it doesn't matter what you do. Even basic level EMT's in the field can't do much more than apply pressure and run like hell. I've treated well over 100 gunshot wounds in my career and yet has even on person attempted to sue me for further injuries caused. Any damage I'm going to do to said BG would get done by other EMTs when they get to the scene.

My first priority is to see to the safety of my family member ie. remove the injured from the area. That might take a minute, If BG bleeds to death while I'm securing the innocent that's his problem.

I can tell you from experience that co-operativeness will vary greatly depending on whose been shot. Part of making sure they scene is safe includes making sure he can't attack me while rendering aid. It would be a dangerous situation to walk into, and one that requires alot of attention and quick thinking to pull off. I judge the situation as it unfolds.

 

[Edward429451]

OOPs you have no training and just moved an injured person

I remember that. You're not supposed to move them. Good point.

You shoot BG multiple times (as should be done) and run up to help. How?

That's what I'm sayin'!!!

Even if you wanted to help, the odds are that you'd end up doing more harm than good. The BG's chances for survival may be increased if you keep your hands off of him and make the call as quick as possible.

When that nice LEO in the other thread mentioned that he'd render assisstance in this scenario, I wonder what he meant by that?

 

[Tim Burke]

This idea of rendering aid to the BG...

keeps coming up, much like Christoper Lee in the old Dracula movies. Let me attempt to drive a stake through its heart.
Determining the level of consciousness of someone who isn't shamming can be difficult, even if one is trained and experienced. Determining the degree of incapacitaion can also be difficult, even in some one who isn't shamming.
Here is what you know:
1. Moments ago, you believed the BG to pose a threat which justified the use of lethal force.
2. He now appears to offer no threat.
What you do not know:
1. What is his level of consciousness?
2. Is he incapacitated?
3. Where are his weapons? Even if you see one, you can't rule out the presence of more.
4. Does he have an accomplice?
5. If he is unconscious, how will he respond if he regains consciousness?
Given what you don't know, I maintain that there is absolutely no way that you can approach the BG in relative safety. Even with trained back-up, approaching him may be quite dangerous. How safe would it have to be for me to approach the guy? It would have to be completely safe.
I haven't even addressed the practical problems to approaching him, because I wouldn't even consider approaching him voluntarily. For instance, do you take your weapon, and leave yourself vulnerable to a disarm? Or do you leave your weapon behind? Neither sounds
attractive to me. Distance is your friend. Maintain it.
Do you just let him bleed out? No, don't do that. Keep your distance, stay behind cover, and call 911.

 

[cool45auto]

Let him bleed while I help my family member. Add lead as needed.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If he'd wanted medical attention, he'd have gone to the hospital instead of breaking into my house.

I don't mean to be callous, but I'm far more concerned about the innocent than the guilty, the victims rather than the perpetrators. If I were a fully qualified emergency room specialist, I might think about helping the criminal, but only after verifying his innocent victim doesn't need my assistance.