Age and NFA?

[jonnyc]

If you have a "questionable" firearm made in the 1880s, is it even subject to NFA regs?

 

[Snyper]

If you have a "questionable" firearm made in the 1880s, is it even subject to NFA regs?

Does it fit the definitions of an NFA weapon?
https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Categories of firearms regulated[edit]
Main article: Title II weapons
The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) defines a number of categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively known as NFA firearms and include the following:

Machine guns
This includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9 pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered").
Short-barreled rifles (SBRs)
This category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel less than 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party.
Short barreled shotguns (SBSs)
This category is defined similarly to SBRs, but with either a smoothbore barrel less than 18" long or a minimum overall length under 26".
Silencers
This includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used bygunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor.
Destructive Devices (DDs)
There are two broad classes of destructive devices:

• Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
• Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50" inch, such as 10-gauge or 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a "legitimate sporting use".)

Any other weapon (AOW)[edit]
Firearms meeting the definition of "any other weapon" or AOW are weapons or devices capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive. Many AOWs are disguised devices such as pens, cigarette lighters, knives, cane guns and umbrella guns. AOWs can be pistols and revolvers having smooth bore barrels (e.g.,H&R Handy-Gun, Serbu Super-Shorty) designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell. While the above weapons are similar in appearance to weapons made from shotguns, they were originally manufactured in the illustrated configuration and are not modified from existing shotguns. As a result, these weapons do not fit within the definition of shotgun or weapons made from a shotgun.

The AOW definition includes specifically described weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading.

The ATF Firearms Technology Branch has issued opinions that when a pistol (such as an AR-type pistol) under 26" in overall length is fitted with a vertical fore-grip, it is no longer "designed, made and intended to fire ... when held in one hand," and therefore no longer meets the definition of a pistol. Such a firearm then falls only within the definition of "any other weapon" under the NFA.[8]

 

[jonnyc]

Read those, and they're not particularly specific.
This: "While an 'antique firearm' is not considered a 'firearm' under the NFA, some states (such as Oregon) have laws that specifically prohibit anyone from owning/obtaining an 'antique firearm' that could not otherwise own/obtain an GCA or NFA defined 'firearm'"; is the clearest bit. If this is accurate, the Parker shotgun discussed below, if in-fact made in the 1880s, would be beyond that threads discussion.

 

[MAKster]

Here is some good info on whether it is considered an antique firearm and not subject to NFA.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...rms-national-firearms-act-definitions-antique

This is just federal law so state laws could be stricter.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Read those, and they're not particularly specific.....

First, those sources cited in post 2, ATF answers on its website to FAQs and Wikipedia, aren't the best sources if one need really accurate and precise information. One needs to go to the actual statutes and, often, associated case law applying those statutes.

The National Firearms Act is codified in Title 26 of the United States Code in Subchapter B, Chapter 53, Subtitle E (26 USC 5801, et seq). Definitions applicable to the National Firearms Act are set out in 26 USC 5845. Firearms covered by the NFA are defined in 26 USC 5845(a):

(a) FIrearm. The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

...This: "While an 'antique firearm' is not considered a 'firearm' under the NFA,....

And while this is true, one must understand how the term "antique firearm" is defined for the purposes of the NFA. Under the NFA an antique firearm is (26 USC 5845(g), emphasis added):

(g)Antique firearm. The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Note that an antique firearm is defined differently, and more narrowly, under the NFA than under the Gun Control Act of 1968. A firearm which would be considered an antique under the GCA might not be an antique for the purposes of the NFA

 

[jonnyc]

Thanks.
MAKster's link really explained it well. Now I understand that previous thread better.