Airgun forums have sure changed!

[Jeb Stuart]

I have pump up and PCP air guns I shoot more than my springers. The springers require the artillery hold to get decent results and are tougher on optics by a good margin, with their recoil.

PCP’s allow faster follow up shots, can be firearm loud though without a moderator, some have lots of shots between fills.

Cant do this with a springer, lots more movement.

A good quality Springer can be very mild. Shoot a Walther LGV and you may not believe how smooth one of these can be. Pnumatics are NOT the same thing as gas ram. Buy a hand pump for a PCP and you can cancel your gym membership.
Two very different groups or classes of air gun shooters. The Springers and the Dark side known as Pcp. I am most definately in the Springer group. Like the recoil, love the natural shooting. PCP is a Country Club that will end up costing you a fortune. Yea, some gun seem to start small, but be prepared to spend a whole lot of money. Nothing wrong with them, but for me, If I want the power of a PCP, I will just buy a 22,cal.


Go to Pyramid air and the difference between a Pneumatic and a PCP and gas ram. The ram is a piston.

By the way, want a cheap gun that is one heck of a lot of fun?. Get this gun when available. Designed after the famous Baikal mdl 60 and 61.These guns had cult like following. I could go on with pages about these little rifles. And they are not just for Youth. Many adults fell in love with them. To actually design one after the Russian Baikal shows how much the desire for one of these are. I have a lot of high end Springers, If this gun made by Americans is anywhere close to the Accuracy of the Russian, then it will be one heck of great buy. Many, Many articles on them over the years.




Russian original






Want another great deal??? The Beeman B17. Another great gun cloned after a gun costing three times as much. This one also had many many atricles etc. I normally do not buy Chinese guns but this one was a exception. I have two them and for years. Still chrony like day one.
BEEMAN PNEUMATIC HANDGUN. $30.00. CRAZY LOW COST.
https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Beeman_P17/614

 

[Rabbitkiller]

I have all varieties of airguns and enjoy them all. It's a different challenge in shooting all types and remembering what each does, but I think it is nice too.I will say even though I like multi-pumps they are not as attractive to use at 63 as they were when I was 16. It is not so bad as to keep me from owning and occasionally shooting them though.

 

[Rabbitkiller]

I like these springers too.

 

[indy1919a4]

View attachment 850559 .

In your 1st photo, Please tell me what the lower 2 air guns are.. Especially the bottom one!! I like the look.

 

[SharpDog]

I've resisted going to PCPs because I like the self-contained aspect of springers. Plus, I guess, I just like the idea of how they work.

I don't know if I'll ever get a PCP. If I do, I'll almost certainly try to get one that has an integral moderator.

FX Independence from AoA, PCP with integral pump. Mine is .25 cal (next to a Webley pistol):

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/fx-independence/

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Diana RWS 460 Magnum. Professionally tuned with a Jim Macarri Spring Kit. You can hear it knock the heck out of a Pine Tree at over 100 yds.

View attachment 850653

Very Old HW professionally tuned by MZ and given to my Son by him. One of the sweetest shooting Airguns you can shoot.

View attachment 850654

Beem R7 Any one that knows anything knows any thing about air Rifles, knows this gun very well.(HW) This Particular rifle was the gun sent to the designer of New Springs at Vortek. Six months later he sent it back with the New Vortek and FPS was dramatically increased, and this already super quiet gun was even more quiet and believe it or not a smoother shooter.

This is a Santa Rosa Model.

View attachment 850655

The famous Beeman C1 Carbine. This gun had a Cult like following. Powerful, lot of recoil, but the dang gun will shoot extremely Accurate. (actually Manufactured by Webley.

View attachment 850656

 

[Kookla]

@Rabbitkiller - those Crosman 101's and Sheridans look sweet. Used to have a Sheridan with the rocker safety. Great rifle and miss it a bunch.

 

[gspn]

I'll ask again, does anyone shoot the pneumatics and what is the general consensus of them, good, bad or same as the springers?
Are they quieter, shoot harder or softer or about the same as the springers?

I shoot PCP's almost exclusively now. I have a Benjamin Marauder rifle in .177 and a Marauder pistol in .22. They are very accurate and very quiet. With the rifle I can put 10 shots onto a dime at 30 yards all day long. I use the rifle for squirrel control in my yard, which is in a heavily populated suburb. The gun is quiet enough that I once killed three squirrels in under 15 seconds, all with headshots. It's so quiet that the squirrels never spooked at the sound of the shot, and they were all within 20 yards of me. I have no idea what the decibel level is, but I find that real world example to be more enlightening than a number. Having a 10 round rotary magazine also helps with the follow up shots. You just cycle the bolt and you have another pellet in the chamber, it's far better for hunting than my old break barrels.

I use the .22 cal Marauder pistol as a side gun when deer hunting. Too many times over the years I've sat in a deer stand for hours waiting on a deer that didn't show, and was absolutely covered up in squirrels the entire time. I can thump squirrels from the treestand all morning without spooking the woods. The pistol is a little louder than the .177 rifle, especially in the quiet woods, but it's still not enough to spook any squirrels into leaving.

As far as the air goes, I have a bicycle type pump, and a 5,000 psi carbon fiber tank. The pump takes some work but it's all about technique. An old lady could fill the gun up with the right technique, there's really not much to it. I get my tank filled by a local fire extinguisher company. It costs $15 to top it off. I can't recall how many refills I get out of it but it's pretty efficient.

I put my guns in the safe, and even if I don't shoot them for a few months (which is rare) they come out with the exact amount of air they had when I put them away. They don't leak, and are always ready.

I don't know that I've owned any proper springers. I had a pair of nitro piston guns and those things had significant recoil. The .177 Marauder weighs around 8 or 9 lbs with the scope, and there is virtually zero recoil. I never lose my sight picture. When I shoot squirrels it's literally like watching TV, the scope never budges away from the target and I can watch the pellet smack that skull.

I've owned the Marauders for several years now, and I have no reason to buy anything other than PCP's going forward. I might buy a Diana one day simply because everyone on the planet says they're awesome, but the PCP's do everything I need and more.

 

[Masboy]

I have a HW30 ,Sheridan ,I love the HW30 that,s a fine accurate gun with a great trigger.wish my anshultz 54 sporter had a trigger that good.the newer 90s I guess Sheridan is a piece of crap compared to the older one I had as a kid. I remember years ago when my cousin an I bought ours as kids,they advertised they were as accurate as a 22 at 33 feet. both shot great

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Many people shoot Peumatics. Some very high end Pistols from HW are Peumatics. Like the Hw 75 that runs around $500.00. Many others. just do a little research. No they are not the same as Springers, but again, too much info to list here. Many Web sights, blogs, forums etc.

https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/Air_pistols/Single_stroke_pneumatic/171

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I'm sure there are many fine air guns under the 12# UK limit, but I was going for a hunting .22. Weihrauch made the HW77 with the more powerful spring and I just didn't want lower powered UK version.

The best spring air rifles shoot around 12lbs. High velocity, is the same kind of bogus advertising you see on cheap Walmart guns etc. And most every newbie will go for high Velocity, until he spends some time and get educated. Talk to a custom Tuner if interesting. A fine tuned Springer is a real Gem.

 

[Rattus58]

I've resisted going to PCPs because I like the self-contained aspect of springers. Plus, I guess, I just like the idea of how they work.

I don't know if I'll ever get a PCP. If I do, I'll almost certainly try to get one that has an integral moderator.

Well I shoot pretty much everyday, and for simplicity sake, my pumpers get the most utilization. I shoot a Umarex StrikePoint (bulky and weak compared to Crossman) and one of several Classics I own... one that is modified somewhat and produces well over 500 fps at 10 pumps. But one thing about the Classics, at least, they are accurate at 4 pumps or 15. That is a big plus. Umarex is 50 to 75 fps behind the Stock Classics pump for pump... for example...
Classic 4 pumps = around 350-360 fps Umarex Strike Point 324 and 325 fps.
Classic 6 pumps = around 416-418 fps Umarex SP = around 376 fps
Classic 8 pumps = around 460 - 470 fps Umarex SP best was 413 fps

 

[JohnKSa]

The pump-ups will certainly get the job done. I have a few and there's nothing wrong with them. They're easier to shoot accurately than a springer and are self-contained unlike a PCP. Getting ready for the next shot takes longer and is noisier than for a springer or PCP, but for simplicity, durability and ease of use, they're hard to beat. Doesn't hurt that they are typically very affordable as well.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Well airguns are meant mostly for children and young adults, some of whom struggle with a break barrel airgun.

 

[JohnKSa]

That's really only true in the U.S. In other countries, airguns are less commonly regarded as primarily oriented towards younger users.

 

[whughett]

Which came first. The PCP or............? Lewis and Clark expedition carried one that was a repeater in 46 caliber at 500fps velocity. Magazine capacity 20. (Wikipedia). Springer’s are the new kid on the block.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Well airguns are meant mostly for children and young adults, some of whom struggle with a break barrel airgun.

Wow, really? Whether you are talking springers, PCP's, CO2 or whatever, the level of quality and capability of airguns appeals to shooters of all ages and they are marketed that way. But I do appreciate you referring to me and a whole bunch of other people on various forums as young adults. Makes my 74 year old heart feel good.

 

[jmorris]

I’ll admit that my first air rifle was a Benjamin pump but there are a lot of air rifles that are out of the price range for a kid or young adult. After my pump, I moved on to rimfire then centerfire, up to 50 BMG. It was years later in life before I came back around.

I have a number of PCP rifles that cost more than equally or superior in accuracy centerfire and rimfire rifles. That’s not even figuring in the equipment to compress air to 4000 PSI and store it for later use.

 

[HJ857]

flightsimmer, I moved to a PCP this past summer and I find it to be really great. Compared to a .177 Umarex springer I also have, the PCP is much quieter, more powerful and far lighter. Plus I use a scope that I had laying around and since there is zero recoil, I didn't need an airgun specific scope.

My total cost for the rifle and a compressor was a bit under $800. The compressor is a DC system but has an AC converter so I can run it off household or a car battery. $300 for the rifle and $400 for the compressor, plus tax. Running 2000 psi with an 18 grain pellet gives me around 50-60 shots per fill.

I like being able to tune it (psi and hammer spring) to match what I'm shooting, depending on target and/or pellet type.

Initially I really wanted an under lever or side lever springer but the cost was a lot higher than I was interested in paying and felt that the PCP was going to give me better overall performance for about the same cost. For me, it was the right choice.

edit, sorry I didn't notice that there were multiple pages in the thread and see that the question is really about gas piston rifles.

 

[Ascot500]

In your 1st photo, Please tell me what the lower 2 air guns are.. Especially the bottom one!! I like the look.

Those are early Crosman pump guns - probably model 100 or 101.
If you like old then look here: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/

 

[3Crows]

Spring/gas piston guns are just too heavy and too large to carry. They are also not especially accurate for several reasons including the barrel not returning to EXACTLY the same place at each cock. Then there is the reverse recoil that damages scopes. They are good for maybe 7 to 10 yards and beyond that the groups just fall apart. But a Benjamin 392 pumper or a PCP can hang with a .22LR at 25 yards or more for accuracy. And they are small and light and easily carried.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Spring/gas piston guns are just too heavy and too large to carry. They are also not especially accurate for several reasons including the barrel not returning to EXACTLY the same place at each cock. Then there is the reverse recoil that damages scopes. They are good for maybe 7 to 10 yards and beyond that the groups just fall apart. But a Benjamin 392 pumper or a PCP can hang with a .22LR at 25 yards or more for accuracy. And they are small and light and easily carried.

I am not sure how you arrived at these conclusions regarding spring piston air rifles but from my experience you are way off base. 7 to 10 yards??? I have three spring piston rifles that I shoot regularly to 25 or 35 yards. The groups that I put on paper are comparable to and often better than what I can do with my .22lr.

Yes many of them are on the heavy side. But my HW30 with scope weighs in at 6 3/4 pounds. My Diana 280 with scope and ZR mount weighs in at 8 3/4 pounds. That one is a bit heavier than I'd like for carrying but it is very manageable with a sling. Both those rifles will shoot sub dime sized groups at 25 yards. There are other options available that are similar.

The spring piston recoil is something that must be paid attention to with scopes but there are solutions for that as well.

This is not intended to criticize your 392 or any PCP. And I have no intention of getting involved in a springer-PCP war. I just want to defend my springers from what I believe to be misinformation in your post.

 

[3Crows]

This is not intended to criticize your 392 or any PCP. And I have no intention of getting involved in a springer-PCP war. I just want to defend my springers from what I believe to be misinformation in your post.

Please note my signature line. Ad libbing, in my experience, springers are cantankerous, HEAVY, HUGE, behemoths with less than stellar accuracy. You may have different experiences and therefore come to different valid conclusions and opinions but that does not invalidate mine nor make my conclusions invalid for my purpose. And for my purpose, I would not care for another springer.

So your 22 match accurate springer, how many FPE? I realize spring guys often dismiss velocity and FPE as being important but again I will refer you to my sig line.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

I can't see any sig line on my phone so I have no clue what you mean.

It is one thing to put your conclusions out there as for your purposes. But some of those are wildly exagerated negatives that I just hate to see used by other people to draw conclusions from.

My three springers are 6.8, 10.7 and 13.6 fpe. I chose those power levels to suit my purposes. Others get similar performance out of higher fpe's.

 

[3Crows]

I can't see any sig line on my phone so I have no clue what you mean.

It is one thing to put your conclusions out there as for your purposes. But some of those are wildly exagerated negatives that I just hate to see used by other people to draw conclusions from.

My three springers are 6.8, 10.7 and 13.6 fpe. I chose those power levels to suit my purposes. Others get similar performance out of higher fpe's.

A signature line is included on many folks posts, these are mine:



The third line is the one to which I refer. And as to the rest, I stand by what I said from my experiences and different education and perspectives and thus I have come to different conclusions from you and my conclusions are equally valid as is yours from your experiences and education and perspectives.
The FPE of the guns you mention, those rifles would be of no interest to me because from my perspective and experience and preferences,15 FPE is about the floor and accuracy on level with a good 22 rifle at 20 to30 yards or more. And a carry weight of no more than 6 pounds plus or minus a few ounces and an overall length not more than a typical .22 rifle. Which from my experiences and perspectives pretty much eliminates anything with a spring it it. If you know of one that can meet my criteria for an air rifle, I would certainly entertain it.

Realizing this a a Chi-rifle, not a $1500 German springer, nonetheless to get sufficient hunting power for my uses it is larger and heavier than a Remington 700 7mm Remington Magnum:



Guess one is the spring airgun, yes, it would be the huge, heavy one on the right: