AK47 vs AR15: Mud on action which one performs better?

  • AK47

    Votes: 19 54.3%
  • AR15

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • About the Same

    Votes: 10 28.6%

  • Total voters
    35
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The test performed by InRangeTV is that they take the rifles and pour soupy mud on the closed actions of an AK and AR and proceed to shake the mud off and attempt to fire a magazine of ammunition. After which they pour mud on an open action (open safety lever on AK and open dust cover on AR) and attempt the same test.

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Not trying to start a war here, just thought the findings were interesting, and I know this is just one test, so a sample of one is like saying I shot a one hole with my rifle on a one shot group.

The AK47 has long been awarded by many as being one of the most durable and dependable battle rifles designed, and rightfully so as it has been in battles and skirmishes throughout the world. The simplicity of it's gas system and the ability of it's users to disassemble, clean and repair or replace parts has been invaluable I am sure to those fighting in remote areas. Much of it's reliability comes from it's loose tolerances which allow it to run in adverse conditions as well as it's materials. I don't personally have much experience with the AK platform, so much of my information above is from second hand, reading and watching, but would like to get one someday as they have a reputation well deserved.

The Stoner designed AR however is a mixed bag of it's perception of durability and dependability as a battle rifle. Like the AK47 it also has fought battles and skirmishes throughout the world (minus the arctic and antarctic, but it has spent it's time in season to be sure. It too provides great accessibility to it's operating parts for cleaning and repair or replacement. Much of it's perception of it's lack of durability is in the fact that it's design promotes carbon from getting deposited into the upper and lower receiver which in turn can slow down the bolt carrier group's velocity. Most will say and has been my experience if one runs an AR/M4/M16 wet and uses good ammo mitigates much of this issue as the carbon gets picked up by the lube and gets moved into areas away from the reciprocating internal parts.

Here is interesting tests performed by InRangeTV, comparing two run of the mill rifles of each respective design (and one test was in response to wanting to see a high end AK with the same test). I think it shows well that guns are machines and there are situations that can cause issues in each of them.

AK47 (AKM): Mud Test

1:10 Mark

AK74 Arsenal SLR104 & Valmet M76 (5.56x45): Mud Test
This video was performed at a separate time as comments to the video stated they would like to see how a high end AK would fair in the test.
5:00 Mark - Arsenal
9:30 Mark - Valmet

AR15: Mud Test
1:00 Mark

I appreciate tests like these and thought they did a good job being fair (although you could sense their bias towards the AR platform) but it shows how public perception needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
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Interesting tests. I watched a bunch of the other videos as well. I think what it proves is that the AR is very good at keeping crap out of itself, but doesn't say much for what happens when crap does get in.

I'm not a soldier and definitely not an expert in either gun but when I look at the two designs what strikes me is that the AR has alot of openings and spaces between parts to displace any small bits of debris that get into the gun. Just about everywhere that there is a moving part in the AK there is space for that part to displace debris that may be in the gun. The open M1 garand style bolt lugs will push stuff out of the way rather than locking up the gun and there is alot of space around the trigger and hammer parts. Same for the gas piston, carrier, and mag release. Also the AK has a pretty long and gently sloping camming surface to close the bolt which should in theory give it alot of camming force to get in battery.

The AR by comparison has a couple trapped confined areas in it that aren't going to be very tolerant of getting small bits of debris in. Specifically the small well that the trigger sits in the lower reciever is pretty much a trapped space and there are tight clearances between the safety, hammer, and sear that cannot be obstructed and there is very little space around these parts to displace debris away from them. Same for the cam pin tract, the carry handle tract, and mag catch. If you were to get stuff in the buffer tube I can see that being a bear to clear out. Also the barrel extension that the bolt cams into is pretty much a trap and there isn't a great way to get anything out of there without disassembly. But as mentioned due to the design I think its alot less likely to get debris in the gun but once its in there I don't think it would be very tolerant of it.

So I believe the above tests but I can also see the reasons why the AR15 has such a reputation for being a drama queen in dirty environments. I'm trying to be subjective as I have the usual bias toward the AK.
 
The AK has never been the unstoppable monster myth has made it to be... and the AR isn't nearly as finicky as rumor makes it. ARs ride on the front rack of our mules at the ranch. There are many times in the summer where they will be absolutely coated in road dust at the end of the day. They have never failed to work.
 
Both require maintenance, but what someguy2800 says,
I'm not a soldier and definitely not an expert in either gun but when I look at the two designs what strikes me is that the AR has a lot of openings and spaces between parts to displace any small bits of debris that get into the gun. Just about everywhere that there is a moving part in the AK there is space for that part to displace debris that may be in the gun. The open M1 garand style bolt lugs will push stuff out of the way rather than locking up the gun and there is alot of space around the trigger and hammer parts. Same for the gas piston, carrier, and mag release. Also the AK has a pretty long and gently sloping camming surface to close the bolt which should in theory give it alot of camming force to get in battery.
is true. The AK's design does lend itself very well to functioning with minimal maintenance. The AR's-not so much. But it is a reliable rifle when maintained.
I hope you keep the port cover shut on them, ClickClickD'oh.
 
Both require maintenance, but what someguy2800 says,

is true. The AK's design does lend itself very well to functioning with minimal maintenance. The AR's-not so much. But it is a reliable rifle when maintained.
I hope you keep the port cover shut on them, ClickClickD'oh.

This. I don't think that "AK reliability" means that's some unstoppable, unjammable beast, as much as it's just tolerant of not being oiled and cleaned.

A big chunk of mud that gets into the action is going to shut down any rifle ever made.
 
(although you could sense their bias towards the AR platform)

You sure could.

As one could also see the difference in the dissolved solids content between the muds used in the two tests.
 
As one could also see the difference in the dissolved solids content between the muds used in the two tests.

I believe the mud used for the AR15 and the Romanian AK were the same batch. The mud used for the Valmet and Arsenal was a different batch.
 
the 7.62x39 was made for the mud or averse conditions not like the 5.56 that was made for the airforce guard shack:rofl:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/7.62x39-features-2.jpg

At a 4th of July picnic, Air Force General Curtis LeMay fired the AR-15 and was very impressed with it. He ordered a number of them to replace M2 carbines that were in use by the Air Force. By November, testing at Aberdeen Proving Ground showed that the AR-15 failure rate had declined to 2.5 failures per 1000 rounds, resulting in the AR-15 being approved for Air Force Trials
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO
 
Practicality? The test which folks never to show:
Fire either of these rifles at a small target, imitative of a small animal, at both 30 yards, and 65 yards...

Let's face it, NOBODY, ever, ever lets their rifle near this much muck and debris.
 
...Much of it's reliability comes from it's loose tolerances which allow it to run in adverse conditions...
Actually, loose tolerances hinders a firearm's ability to run in adverse conditions because it would be difficult to maintain the proper clearances. Some clearances would be too large and some would be too small.
 
It's easy to pick on the AR15. It's not perfect but there are a lot of things it does really well, especially for a civilian. Name any other semi auto rifle that can be adapted to as many calibers, is cheaper, can be made as accurate, or can be built and rebuilt on a kitchen table with simple hand tools. I'll save you the time, it doesn't exist. It has plenty of deficiencies but the world hasn't seamed to have come up with anything better so far.

Just like the much maligned 5.56 cartridge. Granted it's not my absolute favorite cartridge either but I was reading an article today talking about how little energy a 5.56 has at 500 yards compared to a 7.62x39. Ever try to hit something with a 7.62x39 at 500 yards? I recently did and it's no small task. It's like trying to hit a water bottle with a slingshot at 50 yards. I literally have to aim with the bottom edge of my scope.
 
Many thousands of dead bodies on both sides are the empirical evidence of the real world effectiveness of both these weapons. The AR is more reliable than the Russians think it is. The AK will serve the Russians better than we think it would.
 
After my son built his M4ergy AR, I shot it one season in modern military match at the local gun club, using Lake City ammo. (At the start of the season, I painted all surfaces that showed wear with CLP. The rest of the season, I wiped the bore with a patch of Hoppe's #9 between matchs.) Season being 30 rounds for score per match, seven matches per season, 210 rounds total for score, not counting sight checks or function checks. No problems. At the end of the season, I gave it a thorough GI cleaning.

Before and after, in modern military matchs, I shot a Yugo M70AB2 Kalashnikov variant (CIA build on a DCI receiver). Same cleaning discipline. Thorough clean only at the end of the season.

Both platforms. No problems function wise. Reasonable accuracy. I would bet my life on either platform, AR or AK, if stranded in the woods.

For accuracy, I would give the edge to the AR.
 
Practicality? The test which folks never to show:
Fire either of these rifles at a small target, imitative of a small animal, at both 30 yards, and 65 yards...

Let's face it, NOBODY, ever, ever lets their rifle near this much muck and debris.

Everybody throws out the argument that nobody lets their rifle get that nasty, but my rifle got absolutely caked in mud during Basic Training on a couple ocassions. I've also had two ARs get that nasty while hunting pigs in the soupy mud of a Mississippi bean field (people fall down in that stuff quite often).
 
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