AKs, AK's M70s Valmets Norincos and Polytechs - milled, 1, 1.5mm, rate reducers...

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Could not think of what to make the name of this post, so i went for as much potentioal attention as i could.

I recently had the GIFT of being able to walk around in and handle many many AK's and for that matter tons of other guns that were each more then my net worth probibly ever will be. And sorry, no i cant really post pictures, i dont have many and was asked not to publisize those.

NOW down to my question/Area of intrest. As i was looking over the collection of just about every example of every variation of every military small arm ever made, i was looking at the chinese AK's, and i noticed that unlike the oh so popular AKM's that are lurking in every corner of this world, The stamped chinese AKs do not have the rate reducer. I know the russians only put the rate reducer in once they made the stamped "AKM" but why would they then not put it in the milled rifles made after then? Why do the chinease milled rifles not have these AKM style trigger components?

I also noticed that NONE of the Yugo AK's stamped or not have the AKM type trigger group. Neither do the Valmets. What is the point of this "anti-trip" "rate reducer" or whatever? Is it just to slow down the ROF or is it something else too? And most importantly why do the stamped Warsaw pact guns all have this type of trigger group when the old one that the Yugo and Chinese Stamped guns have would be cheaper and easier to produce/install/maintain/replace?

Basicly, everything with the thinner AKM style recievor and trunions has the rate reducer trigger group setup, and the "stiffer" ones seem to not. As this reaches into the area of not only from stamped to milled, but between stamped 1mm and 1.5-1.6's as well.

 

[benEzra]

Were all of the guns you looked at actual NFA Title 2/Class III automatic weapons?

Civilian AK's have different trigger components than military full-auto AK's, but I don't know if that's the case here. If some of the AK's you were looking at were civilian models, that might explain the trigger group differences?

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

no, they all had auto sears.

These changes also seem to be EDIT: ALMOST exactly replicated in the non-rate reducer trigger pack guns also having the old style teloscoping "RPK" type return spring such as in the chinese AK's

 

[MudPuppy]

I don't think there's definitive information on that. The main function is to prevent out of battery firing, it only reduces the ROF a tiny bit. (Yeah, so if its a safety thing, why didn't they use them on the milled or chinese? I dunno...)

I don't think stamped krinks have a functional one either? IIRC, its just a spacer.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

The main function is to prevent out of battery firing

Ok, thats nice to know. I had never had any real impression/information that the "mickey mouse" counter-weight looking thing did anything but reduce the full auto ROF, So your saying that it delays the hammer a bit after the auto sear is tripped, therefor reducing the chance of an early ignition? Sounds logical, but yeah, why would it never even be implimented on the Milled rec. guns and so on? Woud the firing out of battery have anything to do with the thinner 1mm stamped recievors? Because thats what they are mostly used on when i think about it, 1mm 7.62x39 AKM's

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

And is the out of battery firing your referring to basicly a slam fire? if the "rate reducer" is only delaying the hammer then i guess it must not be preventing slam firing.

My other real question is what does the rate reducer setup really do and how does it physically accomplish it. I hope someone with some insight into this stuff is reading...

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Not much definitive info out there on this subject outside of the arsenals that implimented such things i guess.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

I just had the opp. to fire a selct fire AKM today with auto-sear and all. It was a Romanian WUM that was converted to a post dealer sample. I must say the bolt movement is much smoother and trigger much better then my G2 trigger group AK's The trigger shoue was also much wider/more comfortable. I dont know if this is just the result of the trigger group components being better made and or matched or what. But in terms of the bolt fealing like silk insted of sandpaper, it seems that the auto sear holds the hammer pressure off of the bolt carrier untill the autosear is tripped right as the bolt goes fully into battery. This results in a much smooter fealing setup. This gun also had the usual AKM rate reducer. If i can get acess to it and talk the dealer into letting me fire and time it, i would like to see just how much the current rate reducer setup changes the ROF vs the fat disconnector style trigger group without rate reducer.