Am i about to make my gun go boom? Not in a good way.

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Sharpie443

Sharpie443

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So I took the forums advice from my last thread on IMR 4350 that I just got my hands on out of the blue. I attempted to load some 30-06.

I have a question if you don't mind.

I just tried loading some 30-06 with this powder. My Lyman reloading book puts the starting load at 52.5 grains with a 165 grain bullet. So i measured that out and holy crap it fills the case. I feel like I'm reloading compressed black powder loads.

That scares the crap out of me.

I have no reason to debut my reloading book or IMR's website and my scale is not off but I don't reload rifle cartridges very often. This is the first powder I've ever run into where I am compressing smokeless powder. The only other compressed load i know of is for a .460 Roland and that is a special case.

Am I about to blow myself up? Because that would screw up my weekend. I just got a new lever action and I need my hands to try it out.

This might be a stupid question but this is outside the normal very simple cartridges i reload.
 
You can go as low as 51g according to the Hodgdon site, but you can also go up to 55g safely so you will not blow yourself up. You are not at 100% until 54+ grains. I'll be if you tapped the case a few times you'll see the powder level go down.
 
Ya that's what I'm reading. I've just never filled a case before and found myself looking at powder in the neck of the cartridge. Granted I'm normally reloading straight wall cartridges but It put me off the powder a bit.
 
I have loaded 57.0gr IMR 4350 under a 165/168gr bullet in the 30-06 without compressing the powder. If the compression is as bad as you say something is very wrong. I'm glad you listened to your gut and didn't fire them without asking. Check you scale, something is VERY wrong.
 
Well I'm going to go with it then. Think I'll finish loading the 10 rounds of 53 grain loads I was doing. Then I'll do 53.5, 54, 54.5 and 55. That should be enough for one day of shooting and give me an idea of how it will preform.
 
Checked my scale again. I think the powder is just not settled very well in the case and is appearing to take up more volume than it actually is. Maybe i should use a black powder drop tube. Never used it with smokeless but i guess it would work.
 
I'm using a whole bunch of random range brass. I just cleaned, sized it and checked the length. It's probably mostly Remington and hornady brass because that's all i shoot in 30-06. I checked my scale with a weight and I put a 165 grain bullet on it every once in a while to make sure it's still on while I'm weighing powder.
 
Wait - before you load any more, and especially before you shoot any of the loads, let's discuss this a bit more. Like AACD, intuitively I think there is something wrong. (I've been reloading for around 48 years so I trust my intuition on these matters.)

I just loaded a 30-06 case (Federal) with 52.5 grains of IMR4350. The load came up to about the start of the shoulder. It certainly wasn't close to the neck as you described. Then I continued filling the case until it started entering the neck and weighed that load. It was 59 grains. Now, that won't blow up your rifle, but it is a little over the max for that weight bullet according to Speer #13.

Let's go over the check weight thing again. Are you only using a 165 grain bullet as your check weight or do you have an official check weight? Bullets are notorious for not being what their nominal weight is claimed to be. Using one as a check weight is worse than not using a check weight at all and going only by the scale's calibration instructions.

What type of scale do you have?
 
I use an actual check weight. I just use a bullet that I have weight before to quickly check while i am weighing powder.

I have a lyman electronic scale and a hornady balance beam scale. They are showing the same weight.

I think I've figured out the problem though. I tapped the brass a bunch and it settled down to about the shoulder with 53 grains so it's not compressed. It's just very bulky powder and I'm not use to that. I guess I'm going to have to treat it more like black powder and maybe use a drop tube.
 
Ok, that's more like it. Honestly, I've never had to tap a case to get the powder to settle and that includes extruded powders like 4350. I wonder if you have a serious static electricity problem at your reloading bench. Going from the neck of the case down to the shoulder is a whole lot of settling.
 
Like others mentioned, I load my 30-06 with charges with IMR 4350 in the 56-57 gr charge weight area.

I am just curious Sharpie. Are you throwing a powder charge and trickling up to 53 grains and measuring every charge?

Swanee

BTW - I separated my brass by head stamp and load all one type. Not required, but not all brass has the same case capacity.
 
I agree, I have never seen that much settling and have never needed to use a drop tube with that type of load.

Are you using a powder measure or weighing every charge and dropping into a funnel?

Like I said above, I have charged 57.0gr and even 58.0gr and did not have a compressed load which was verified by Mal H.
 
Yes I measure every shot using a scoop and then trickling up to the desired amount. I have a very simple setup. I don't have an automatic powder measure or anything like that.

I measure every shot and the pump it in to a funnel. The funnel I have is to big for 30-06, it just sits on top of the case rim but it works. I normaly load 45-70 and .45 colt so that's what my equipment is set up for.
 
Use the long drop tube on a powder funnel ... also try pouring powder onto the side of the funnel as to create a swirling motion like water going down a sink ... you can pack a lot of powder in a case that way....
 
My manuals show 60 gr as a max load. I generally load 58-59 gr when using that powder and bullet weight in either Winchester or Remington brass. I only use about 57 gr with Federal brass. One of the benefits of using either H4350 or IMR4350 is that you can't get enough powder in a 30-06 case to blow it up. You will start getting compressed loads before you reach max.

I suspect your scales may not be calibrated correctly. I think you're putting more than 53 gr in the case for it to be even close to full.
 
I have used H4350, AA4350, and IMR 4350 in bolt action 30-06’s. A load which is very accurate with 165’s, 168’s SMK’s, and 175 SMK’s is 55.0 grains AA or IMR 4350, any case, any primer. There were a couple of "standard" loads when the 30-06 was being used in Across the Course shooting, one was 47.0 grains IMR 4895 with a 168 and another was 55.0 grains IMR 4350 with a 168. The same charge will work well with a 165 grain hunting bullet, and as you can see, with a 175 grain SMK.

In my testing, my lot of H4350 was one grain slower than either IMR or AA4350. Accurate Arms told me that their powder is a pressure curve equivalent of IMR.



M98 26" 1-10 Wilson Barrel

175 gr Sierra 55.0grs AA4350 wtd. FED 210M W/W cases OAL 3.30"
5 Oct 2000 T=70°F

Ave Vel =2710
Std Dev =18
ES = 43
Low = 2679
High = 2722
N = 5
Excellent group rounded primers

175gr Sierra 56.0 grs H4350 wtd. WLR Mixed Commercial cases OAL 3.290"
5 Oct 2000 T=70°F

Ave Vel =2733
Std Dev =24
ES = 80
Low = 2686
High = 2766
N = 14
Group Size Very Good


190gr Speer 55.0 grs H4350 wtd. FED 210M Frontier cases OAL 3.350"
5 Oct 2000 T=70°F

Ave Vel =2590
Std Dev =9
ES = 25
Low = 2579
High = 2604
N = 9
Very Good rounded primers

190gr Speer 54.0 grs AA4350 wtd. FED 210M W/W cases OAL 3.350"
5 Oct 2000 T=70°F

Ave Vel =2642
Std Dev =15
ES = 44
Low = 2629
High = 2673
N = 10

Excellent group rounded primers

200 gr Sierra Match 51.0 IMR 4350 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases)
Fed 210S OAL 3.35
30 April 98 T=72°F

Ave Vel =2460
Std Dev =22
ES = 68
Low = 2427
High = 2495
N = 10
Group Size0.9" * 0.9"


200 gr Sierra Match 52.0 IMR 4350 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases)Fed 210S OAL 3.35
30 April 98 T=72°F

Ave Vel = 2581
Std Dev = 78
ES = 205
Low = 2481
High = 2686
N = 10
Click to expand...
 
JimKirk said:
Use the long drop tube on a powder funnel ... also try pouring powder onto the side of the funnel as to create a swirling motion like water going down a sink ... you can pack a lot of powder in a case that way....
Click to expand...

I agree. Good suggestions.

I've not used IMR4350, but with other bulky or stick powders, I've had troubles on occasions getting all the powder in the case when hand charging.

The powder can bridge a bit inside the case preventing it from settling. In extreme cases, it can block the case and the remaining powder just spills all over the reloading bench. 17 Remington is real bad about this with stick powders.
 
JimKirk said:
Use the long drop tube on a powder funnel ... also try pouring powder onto the side of the funnel as to create a swirling motion like water going down a sink ... you can pack a lot of powder in a case that way....
Click to expand...
I normally use a long drop tube with my RCBS Uniflow powder throw.

Powder%20Drop%20Tubes.png

I alsao use the RCBS 1500 dispenser throw. Using a 4" or 6" drop tube allows the powder to settle.

Ron
 
I'll pick one up next time i make a midway order which should be soon. I loaded up 50 rounds of 30-06 which is probably more than i have ever shot out of my 30-06. Made 5 different loads to test out. I'll see how it goes. If it works out well I might try the same thing with my .270 Winchester.
 
I use RL-15 and 165g Sierra Spitzers, mixed brass. I use around 48g of the RL-15 and have to look into the case to see if I have powder. Something doesn't sound right.

On the flip side, I use BL-C2 on my .223/75g Amax, and at around 24g of powder, its almost a compressed load and worried me until I shot the first few rounds and all went well. No pressure signs at all and very accurate.

Be safe, be sure.
 
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