Ammo question

[Just Jim]

Yes there is an ammo shortage. I wonder though could it be the manufactures see the comming administration making them mark all the new manufactured ammo so they ain't gearing up to make alot now that they may have to eat??

Seems the shelves are empty for a long time so I wonder what the hold up is??

jj

 

[TexasRifleman]

I wonder though could it be the manufactures see the comming administration making them mark all the new manufactured ammo so they ain't gearing up to make alot now that they may have to eat??

If there was worry of an ammo marking law coming I would expect the ammo makers to actually do the opposite; scream it from the rooftops and crank up production to maximize profits while they could.

Shelves are empty because there is a 40% increase in guns sales the last 4 or 5 months (depending on whose numbers you read).

There is no serious talk of ammo marking legislation at a Federal level at this time.

 

[Just Jim]

I was reading in the paper that 9 states are considering the mandatory use of the ammo technology that marks both case and bullet. Seem they will have to ban all other types of ammo to make this work.

jj

 

[TexasRifleman]

I was reading in the paper that 9 states are considering the mandatory use of the ammo technology that marks both case and bullet. Seem they will have to ban all other types of ammo to make this work.

First, many states are considering lots of things, there are many laws proposed. 95%+ of proposals die before becoming law, most before even leaving a committee.

These ammo marking things have been proposed off and on for several years, in several states.

Second, even of a couple of the wacko states like California or Illinois pass such a law, what makes you think they would be capable of forcing ammo makers to stop selling unmarked ammo in other states.

There is plenty of stuff to worry about gun law wise and this may be one eventually but for now it appears to have no traction at all.

Vigilance, not paranoia.

 

[fastbolt]

Well, if speculation is going to be involved ...

There's been a lot of ammunition purchases seemingly fueled by word-of-mouth and internet rumor control. A friend of mine (another LE trainer) recently called me to ask if something unusual was happening, because he'd stopped by a local gun show and was surprised to see huge ammunition sales occurring. He said he watched in puzzlement while cases and cases of all calibers of ammunition were being purchased. Lots of hand truck activity carrying ammunition outside to vehicles. It seems the ammunition market can be as easily influenced by hysteria as the stock market.

At least one of the major manufacturers has been awarded a $50+ contract with a fed agency, and is looking as though it might receive another contract worth upwards of $54 for yet another caliber. I'm told much of their manufacturing capability is presently being focused on this effort.

There's a LOT of money in LE/Gov ammunition sales & contracts, you know.

On the other hand, I had reason to walk into a commercial gun store the other day and saw the shelves as fully stocked with all manner of normal ammunition selection as they've ever been. Prices were a bit higher, of course.

 

[TEDDY]

Serializing

the serializing thing is in the mind of two people.there is no machinery to do it
they want some state to vote it in and finance it.Its nothing but a scam.Mass would not vote it in nor calif.the ammo companies are not either.it has no chanch of working.

 

[moooose102]

Second, even of a couple of the wacko states like California or Illinois pass such a law, what makes you think they would be capable of forcing ammo makers to stop selling unmarked ammo in other states.

yep, folks would just go across the border (joke)to a neighboring state to buy ammo, and bring it back. normally, you dont need to show id to buy ammo, unless it is walmart or other retail chain. criminals would find a way around it anyway. and that is the whole idea beind doing this, is to be able to track the criminal. that is just not going to happen. a lot of criminals are at least kind of smart.

 

[Oddbod]

The Bills that are being introduced are the work of the company that MIGHT at some point make the technology viable to microstamp ammunition.
Needless to say, the representatives who are anti self defence are happy to run with this Roneo'd rubbish.
These whacko Bills also stipulate that handloading must be outlawed & all non stamped ammunition handed in.
I reckon you guys might have something to say about that.

Meanwhile, on the ammunition front: Federal have just terminated 40 employees' contracts at their small arms ammunition division.
How crazy is THAT with demand being at unprecedented levels????

 

[shotgunjoel]

Yep Illinois is horrible to us gun owners. Yeah I have no idea how they'd enforce that, unless they make pocession a big time felony.

 

[Shovelhead]

Micro-Tagging and Serial Numbering ammo will both take time to implement.

A new Federal tax per round if passed (another tactic of control that keeps making the rounds) could take place a lot sooner.

 

[Just Jim]

Anyway, does anyone have contact with the ammo manufacturers to see if they are in full production or not????????

It would be nice to know they are trying to meet demand.

jj

 

[TexasRifleman]

It would be nice to know they are trying to meet demand.

There's this war thing and all by the way.

Police departments around the country are having a hard time getting ammo too.

ATK, Alliant Tech Systems, runs the Lake City ammo plant as well as Federal and Speer.

They made about 1.4 billion rounds for military contracts in 2006 (the last year they have reported stats for).

They announced that they are running their plants 24/7, and are building more production facilities.

Rumors surface now and then that they have even scavenged equipment from the civilian plants to increase the production output for the military.

Even in non mil calibers there is commonality of materials and if it's being diverted to meet the military needs first, there's plenty of reason for shortages.

Add to that all the increased training by the myriad of LE agencies post 9/11 and you can see quickly how ammo use has gone through the roof.

Lake City for example made 425 million rounds in 2002, now up to 1.4 billion and climbing, in just 4 years. I would not be surprised to see the 2008 numbers approaching 2 billion rounds. That was the DoD goal.

That's a LOT of ammo. Lake City supplies about 80% of the military small arms ammo.

Then you have guys like Black Hills making the specialty stuff, Mk262Mod1 and the like. These factories are cranking out ammo at an unprecedented rate, it's just not going to the civilian market for the moment.

Due to reported shortages, General Dynamics was awarded a contract to make ammo as well. From an October 2005 report from DoD:

* The goal is for production of as much as 2.0 billion rounds of small-caliber ammunition annually.
* The first 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition each year will come from ATK Lake City
* Followed by an additional 300 million rounds from a second source.
* The next 300 million rounds increment each year will again come from ATK Lake City
* If the Army needs an additional 200 million rounds, it will be provided by ATK and/or the second source.

General Dynamics wound up being that second source. GD was already making 20 and 30mm rounds.

It will be interesting to see if the Obama massive troop reductions cause a drop in small arms ammo usage. Might be a boon for us civilians as the ammo companies try to find new customers if their biggest one stops or slows its' buying.