AMMO WARNING!! Beware of Winchester 9mm NATO bulk!

[JTHunter]

One of the newsletters I get had this article in it from 3 days ago.

Why the Winchester 9mm NATO Bulk Ammo May be Bad for Your Pistol

After the recent ammo drought, it’s good to see relatively cheap bulk pistol ammo returning to store shelves. But ammo buyers need to be aware that not everything is as it seems and not all ammo is created equal.

I found this Winchester “150 Round Value Pack” of 9mm NATO 124 gr ammo for sale at my local Gander Mountain for $49.99 recently. That works out to about $16.66 per 50, which is not bad for reloadable brass cased 9mm in the current market.

That is, until you read the (very) fine print on the bottom of the box that says, “These cartridges are loaded to military velocity and pressure; average pressure is 10% to 15% higher than industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger.” (emphasis added)

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/10/01/winchester-9mm-nato-bulk-ammo-bad-pistol/

 

[dogtown tom]

You're a couple of dozen years late on your warning.
WalMarts in Texas have carried Winchester 9mm NATO for years.

 

[fanchisimo]

So where would that put the ammo in terms of +p or +p+?

 

[BigBL87]

I always heard it was around +P, or just a smidge under. I have no definitive knowledge though.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I believe I have known that the NATO loading was hot since the 1980s . . .

Mike

 

[Panzerschwein]

^ Same.

This is sensationalism without supporting evidence. It is a well known fact that 9mm NATO loads are generally in the 9mm +P range in terms of pressure, or slighly less than that. This is what Winchester is trying to convey on it's packaging. When fired it moderate amounts, it will not harm any modern production quality 9mm handgun. Extended use may accelerate wear, but it would take a good deal of ammo to do this.

 

[Water-Man]

124gr. NATO is less than +P.

 

[Rock185]

JT, I am aware of the article you linked. Just .02 worth from an old guy out West who has used thousands of rounds of Winchester Q4318 9MM NATO 124 grain ball ammo in a variety of firearms over the last approx. 15 years. This would include use in SIG, S&W, Colt, Dan Wesson, STI, FN/Browning Hi Power, HK, Glock, CZ75, and Kimber semi-auto pistols (multiple examples of most of these), S&W revolvers, Ruger revolvers, Marlin carbines, etc. I have chronographed different lots of this ammo over the years. This ammo generally shows slightly greater ( 50-100 fps or so) velocities than some US commercial ammo of similar bullet weight, depending on the particular firearm, barrel length,etc. I have detected no increased wear or damage using this ammunition in the firearms listed. Assuming ammo in the new packaging is the same as I have been buying for years ( 50rd, boxes in 500rd. cases), I would not personally hesitate to use this ammo in properly maintained, quality firearms...ymmv

I understand what the author of the article is trying to communicate, but as dogtown tom indicated, the author is quite a few years late.

 

[Lucky Derby]

Yes, it's 9mm NATO not 9mm Luger/Parabellum/x19

It is slightly warmer than standard 9mm, but not quite as warm as 9mm +P

In other words, it's safe in MOST guns chambered for 9mm.

 

[Onmilo]

9mm "NATO" is loaded about the same standards as commercial European 9mm
American 9mm is generally loaded to lower standards to protect against liability when used in old worn out or cheaply made guns.

Don't buy the cheapest junk shooters and you'll have no problems with "NATO" ammunition.

 

[BigG]

9mm "NATO" is loaded about the same standards as commercial European 9mm
American 9mm is generally loaded to lower standards to protect against liability when used in old worn out or cheaply made guns.

Don't buy the cheapest junk shooters and you'll have no problems with "NATO" ammunition.

That's the key here.

 

[greyeyezz]

Your warning folks about ammo for no reason.

 

[usp9]

It is great practice ammo that mimics hotter carry loads for a much lower price. Accurate and reliable, I buy all I can find at a good price.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

It's good ammo and in a modern pistol or revolver should pose no problems whatsoever. It's better than the average 9mm ball ammo.

 

[Otto]

No problem with NATO until you decide to reload them...then you'll have to remove the crimp around the primer.
Not worth the hassle considering the abundance of 9mm brass.

 

[Rock185]

I believe Onmilo is correct ref. the European ammo. I have occasionally chronographed European ammo, Canadian military and Israeli too, not marked, SMG, Carbine,etc. Velocities with similar bullet weights were consistent with the Winchester NATO ammo. I've always suspected that our US Commercial ammo is intentionally loaded down a bit for exactly the reasons Onmilo cited....ymmv

 

[kBob]

When I was in Europe in 81 I purchased Geco ammo instead of purchasing US 9x19 mm for my privately owned weapons at the rod and gun clubs......Geco loads it like it should be instead of loading down. My unit was still issued 1911A1s and while I carried a Mark IV Series 70 in the field I had a couple of 9silly meters for either when I was flying (sort of as a joke with my pilot who initially had a .38 COLT revolver he had never fired issued to him rather than a Model 10 S&W M&P, sad thing was once I pointed out the obsolescent revolver having been appearently on the division books since 1940 rather than giving it to the division museum they destroyed the piece by band sawing it to bits) I had a CZ75 for field carry also and when I did not appear to be armed there was frequently an H&K P7 PSP in my BDU pocket. Both those guns loved the Geco ammo. On my return stateside I had the opertunity to fire some of the geco in an MP40 and it gave a noticeably higher rate of fire.

-kBob

 

[mgmorden]

Commercially loaded ammo varies a bit in power factor - that's not news. Your average Federal bulk pack stuff when chrono'd comes in at around 128-132 power factor (weight of bullet (gr) x velocity (fps) divided by 1000). I've tried commercial 124gr Aguila that came in at 154 pf.

Nothing wrong with Winchester's ammo being a bit hotter.

 

[AustinTX]

124gr. NATO is less than +P.

9mm NATO is +P. It's just pretty mild +P. Any 9mm generating >35,000 to 38,500 PSI is considered +P, and the average Pmax of 9mm NATO is 36,500 PSI.

For any decent, modern, non-miniature 9mm pistol in good condition, it's of no concern whatsoever. Just don't shoot it in your Rohrbaugh or your Diamondback.

 

[Jaymo]

I don't think I own any 9mms that are not rated for +P.
ISTR the owner's manual for my SR9 saying that it is safe with any 9x19 ammo.
Pretty sure my TZ75, 5946, PT99 will be fine with it.
Especially the 5946 and TZ steel framed beasts.

 

[AustinTX]

ISTR the owner's manual for my SR9 saying that it is safe with any 9x19 ammo.

I'd be surprised if that's the case. As far as I know, no manufacturer warrants use with +P+, because +P+ has no specified upper limit.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

That isn't a warning, that's an advertisement.

 

[g.willikers]

If this is the same stuff that was stacked high at gun shows back in the early nineties for $90 per K, it measured on my chronograph at 1250 f/s.
Since it was about the same price as reloading, without the work, lots of folks used it, regularly, without issue.

 

[Fishbed77]

This alarmist thread probably just needs to be closed down. There is nothing new about Winchester 9mm NATO, and I can't think of any modern 9x19mm pistols that can't fire it safely.

It's like having a thread called:

"OMG!!! DON'T SHOOT MODERN SHOTSHELLS WITH SMOKELESS POWDER IN YOUR GREAT-GRANDPA'S DAMASCUS TWIST BARREL SHOTGUN!!!"

 

[Onward Allusion]

Yup. More experienced shooters will already know that NATO rounds are hotter, falling between standard pressure and +P. It's not going to hurt your gun, however.