I have been watching the 9mm vs. 40 thread run its course. I know this horse keeps has been run into the ground then kicked then shot a couple of times & now it is getting kicked some more. Anyway I was thinking that just as important as the caliber you choose is the ammunition you choose for it. I am not the most knowledgeable but I do know that a cartridge that works well in a 4" or 5" 9mm pistol isn't necessarily the best choice for a 9mm pistol with a 31/2" or shorter barrel. So my question is what ammunition have you selected for your defensive handguns & why? If you could tell us any pertinent information. Whether it is standard 9mm or .45 or plus P, bullet weight, barrel length you chose it for, etc.
Ammunition Selection
- Thread starter Mike J
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JTQ
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I carry .45 Auto. I don't lose any sleep over what ammo I choose, not because it's .45 Auto, just because it's not that big of a deal to me.
While most of the folks in that other thread (I didn't read it, I can only imagine) will comment there isn't much difference between 9mm, .40S&W, and .45 Auto, they're correct. However, there is more difference between 9mm, 40S&W, and .45Auto, than between all the hairsplitting within each caliber. Pick what feeds and is accurate in your gun, what you can readily get, and are willing to pay for, and you'll be just fine.
While most of the folks in that other thread (I didn't read it, I can only imagine) will comment there isn't much difference between 9mm, .40S&W, and .45 Auto, they're correct. However, there is more difference between 9mm, 40S&W, and .45Auto, than between all the hairsplitting within each caliber. Pick what feeds and is accurate in your gun, what you can readily get, and are willing to pay for, and you'll be just fine.
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JR24
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Between brands in the same caliber I just say pick one that feeds perfect in your gun and dont worry.
I've used Golden Sabers quite a bit as they always run well in my guns. HST too, which probably consistently tests best in gel.
PDX, Gold Dots and Rangers are also bullets I've used in the past, all would work well.
I've used Golden Sabers quite a bit as they always run well in my guns. HST too, which probably consistently tests best in gel.
PDX, Gold Dots and Rangers are also bullets I've used in the past, all would work well.
Random 8
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I carry 124 grain Hornady XTP in a couple of 9mm handguns of aprox 4" barrel length. This bullet is also readily available for reloading and I can exactly duplicate the factory loads for practice. I used to shoot an Argentine contract Hi Power that needed 124s at a relatively brisk speed, and the Hornady functioned this pistol reliably and has a good reputation for performance. It is used by several local LEOs that I assist in marksmanship training and has been used to successfully settle many RW gunfights in service handguns and SMGs. Also all of my handloading is centered around this bullet weight, so I just stuck with it in the defensive loads in my newer handguns.
I would feel confident with most any commercial HP ammunition available today, I just choose the Hornady as that's what I've carried for sometime. Bonus that it is one of the least expensive options and readily available locally.
I would feel confident with most any commercial HP ammunition available today, I just choose the Hornady as that's what I've carried for sometime. Bonus that it is one of the least expensive options and readily available locally.
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Lennyjoe
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Any quality JHP will suffice it handgun cartridges. My bigger concern when picking SD ammo is my ability to follow up shots and hitting its intended target. I’m not planning on relying on 1 shot to stop a perp. I’m more worried about hitting the perp with as many shots as it takes to stop the attack. Accuracy is more important to me.
Feed reliability is No 1. EVERYTHING else is secondary. Caliber, bullet style, velocity and ft. lbs. on target don't mean anything if the rounds don't feed 100% in your gun and magazine. Our own military chose ball rounds because of feed reliability. They work just fine if you place them where they need to go. Personally I could care less about what law enforcement uses. They base their choice on the lowest bid and that choice is usually made by Admin. pogues who know absolutely nothing about firearms or ballistics. And that's the same reason L.E. chose the Glock. They're cheap to buy.
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I use Remington Golden Sabers. They feed well in all of my carry guns, I think they're locally manufactured, and they're carried by at least 4 major LE agencies in this area. (I realize that local manufacture may, in part, explain why so many agencies around here carry them.)
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Buckeye63
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Glock 27 & 23 180gr HST
Glock 32 125gr GD Underwood
Glock 19 & 17 125gr +P Winchester PDX-1
Glock 43 124gr HST
Glock 29 180gr GD Underwood
Glock 29 200gr XTP Underwood
Glock 21 230gr +P Nolser Underwood
Glock 30S 230gr Rem Golden Saber
Taurus TCP 90gr XTP Underwood
Glock 32 125gr GD Underwood
Glock 19 & 17 125gr +P Winchester PDX-1
Glock 43 124gr HST
Glock 29 180gr GD Underwood
Glock 29 200gr XTP Underwood
Glock 21 230gr +P Nolser Underwood
Glock 30S 230gr Rem Golden Saber
Taurus TCP 90gr XTP Underwood
The military chooses ball because they're prohibited from using hollow points.
I currently have HST in my Shield and WWB JHP in my 2.0 Compact, both 9mm. I've also carried Critical Defense, Gold Dots and Remington's G&W. I mostly shoot standard pressure stuff and I tend to lean towards 115 or 124 grain because I think they expand more reliably than some of the 147 grain loads that are moving slower. I tend to think any decent JHP is fine, just be sure you shoot it enough to know point of impact and that it's reliable in your gun. I'm not a fan of the RIP type of ammo because I think the penetration is lacking and the marketing could bite you if you had to actually use it. I am intrigued by some of the Lehigh Defense stuff but haven't ever used it.
The US military is not prohibited from using hollow-point ammunition. Declaration IV,3 of the Hague Convention of 1899. "This declaration states that, in any war between signatory powers, the parties will abstain from using bullets which flatten or expand easily in the human body." This directly banned soft-point bullets (which had a partial metal jacket and an exposed tip) and "cross-tipped" bullets (which had a cross-shaped incision in their tip to aid in expansion, nicknamed "Dum Dums" from the Dum-Dum Arsenal in India). It was ratified by all major powers, except the United States."
The US is not bound by this provision since the US did not ratify the declaration. But the US military has generally abided the declaration, in part because its most of its Allies and NATO partners have been signatories to the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907. It should be noted that multiple provisions of the Hague Conventions have been repeatedly violated even by some of the signatory countries including prohibitions on engaging in hostilities without prior warning, and the use of poison gas.
The new XM1153 Special Purpose 9x19 mm pistol cartridge being tested with the XM17 and XM18 pistols is, in fact, a 147 grain hollow-point.
The US is not bound by this provision since the US did not ratify the declaration. But the US military has generally abided the declaration, in part because its most of its Allies and NATO partners have been signatories to the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907. It should be noted that multiple provisions of the Hague Conventions have been repeatedly violated even by some of the signatory countries including prohibitions on engaging in hostilities without prior warning, and the use of poison gas.
The new XM1153 Special Purpose 9x19 mm pistol cartridge being tested with the XM17 and XM18 pistols is, in fact, a 147 grain hollow-point.
481
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In 9mm, I typically load and carry either the Speer Gold Dot (124- or 147-grain) JHP or the Federal HST (124- or 147-grain) JHP both in their standard pressure forms. When it comes to the .45, I usually load the 230-grain Gold Dot (standard pressure).
According to Dr. Roberts' testing, the ammunition listed below meets the FBI test protocols (and might be 'over-kill' for what most of us are likely to encounter):
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)
.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
Unless you want to test your actual carry ammo for yourself (which is something that I encourage everyone to do for themselves), anything off of the list above ought to serve quite well.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I agree with Lennyjoe and Drail. Reliability and accurate follow up shots are paramount.
Out of all the manufacturers ammo I have tried I have found Hornady American Gunner with XTP bullets to be a great choice for 9mm, .38 and .357.
Out of all the manufacturers ammo I have tried I have found Hornady American Gunner with XTP bullets to be a great choice for 9mm, .38 and .357.
....out of a 4 or 5 in barrel. OP brought up 3" barrels because shorter barrel=less velocity=erratic/ unexpected terminal ballistics. This could turn many of these venerable rounds into expensive FMJs because the short barrels just don't generate the necessary velocities to get them to expand as designed.
I use Hornady Critical Defense in my Kahr CM9 with a 3" barrel. It functions well in this pistol, is readily available at reasonable cost, and most of the tests I've seen suggest that it will expand consistently out of short barrels.
Or maybe ive been brainwashed by too many a "shooting the bull" ammo quest videos.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i
481
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...or they might work just fine. Without testing from his gun, who knows what they'll do?
I suspect that most, if not all, of the suggested rounds will function just fine out of a 3'' barrel; of course, there is always the option of doing a little testing to see for himself how they'll work when fired from his gun...the Hornady load that you use out of your 3'' Kahr is not specifically designated as being 'short-barrel' loading, so I imagine that most premium JHPs will work over a wide range of velocities. It is hard to believe that the major domestic manufacturers haven't done their homework and made sure that the 'velocity envelope' of their JHPs will perform well across a wide range of barrel lengths (and velocities).
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Zaydok Allen
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I carry 124 gr +p HSTs or Gold Dots in my 9mms and 230 gr +p of the same varieties in my 45s.
JR24
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And/or take a glance at the luckygunner gel tests, since they use short barrel guns. Its gel, so take it for what worth.
Then again, I CCW a 4" or 4.25" barrel, so the site is less useful to me
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
481
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And/or take a glance at the luckygunner gel tests, since they use short barrel guns. Its gel, so take it for what worth.
Then again, I CCW a 4" or 4.25" barrel, so the site is less useful to me
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Exactly! While I am not a big fan of testing ammunition using the CBG stuff (it has a few problems of its own), it does provide at least a hint as to what might be expected from ammunition fired from the shorter barreled pistols out there.
There's a wealth of info out there for 'short-barreled' test results...so, why not use them? Thanks for pointing them out!
I bet what you say is truer for newer bullets (HST) than it is for older ones (hydrashok).
Testing reliable feed and point of impact is about as much as I have the ambition to test, to be honest. I bet I have plenty of company. For terminal ballistics, there are many people testing these offerings on YouTube, shooting the bull is my favorite because he tries to be consistent accross all tests. Through his tests, he makes a compelling case that many self defense/LE offerings do not perform as well in 3" barrels as they do in 5" barrels. Many of the great rounds you listed fail the iwba/fbi protocol in short barrels in his tests.
Straight from Hornady website:
"Critical Defense® ammunition IS optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns..."
"...Critical DUTY® loads are "full power loads" designed to function full-size handgun slides. Although designed to work flawlessly in ALLhandguns, these loads are NOToptimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns; they will deliver standard recoil during firing." (Emphasis not added by me)
https://www.hornady.com/support/duty-defense-differences
How much is hype vs reality? I don't know first hand, but Shooting The Bull's tests of these two rounds lends credence to it. And more of his tests suggest that the velocity envelope for adequate expansion for many JHPs is narrower than expected.
But who am I to say? I'm just some random person on the internet who's too lazy to do his own ballistics gel tests.
FL-NC
Member
I get whatever American made hollow points are on sale and function well in my pistols. Since I mostly use Glocks in 9mm, there isn't much concern for reliability. My SA MILSPEC 1911 that sees occasional use but mostly lives in my tool box in the garage is loaded with Hornady critical defense, because they are very "pointy", which I think increases reliability in feeding.
481
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Most likely you are correct. The older designs evolved during what I like to call the 'dark ages' of modern JHP development when the only variable being pursued was to push the bullet faster and faster in the hope that the problematic design would (eventually? maybe?) work. Nowadays, with the vast proliferation of JHP designs (some good, others not so much), we have an embarrassment of riches (choices) before us that can meet almost any set of circumstances that we can imagine.
Well.....you know how to fix that.
ahem (pay someone else to do it) cough cough coughI use REMINGTON +P 115 grain jhp in my STOEGER 8000 and SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD9 Sub Compact. The +P pressure offsets some of the velocity loss of going to a short barrel. Be forewarned, the flash and noise will be greater. In a 4.9 inch barreled BERETTA 92, I might just stay with standard pressure rounds as the velocity will still be high enough to guarantee expansion of the hollow point and recovery time between shots is shorter. Also, wear is less from standard pressure rounds.
In .40 S&W, my agency downgraded from 155 grain jhp, to 135 grain jhp, then to 180 grain jhp. Since the last ammo is FEDERAL HST, I don't feel it is a real loss. The HST ammo has performed well in testing, in both 9m.m. and .40 S&W caliber.
If the recoil, noise and flash are too much, you might consider SPEER'S Short Barrel load.
Jim
In .40 S&W, my agency downgraded from 155 grain jhp, to 135 grain jhp, then to 180 grain jhp. Since the last ammo is FEDERAL HST, I don't feel it is a real loss. The HST ammo has performed well in testing, in both 9m.m. and .40 S&W caliber.
If the recoil, noise and flash are too much, you might consider SPEER'S Short Barrel load.
Jim
Buzznrose
Member
Almost my words...add “and M&P’s” after “ Glocks” and we are in synch. Most other posts are also spot on. Hits count, good hits count more. All else is secondary.
I prefer heavier bullets personally.
And there is usually a good selection of quality JHP ammo here:
https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/9mm-luger-ammo?sort=round_high
Charlie Martinez
Member
I know ammo selection is part of the fun but the reality is that a well placed shot is infinitely more important than bullet or caliber selection. I always tell my students that a well placed 22 rimfire bullet is better than a miss with a 44 Magnum. Well placed shots into an attacker with a light 38 Special load (700-800 fps wadcutter) is better than if you hit a nonvital area or miss w/anything else. In the old days people were killed on a daily basis with loads/calibers & bullets that today would be regarded as laughable mouse fart loads. But back then people knew how & where to shoot. These days we have a false sense of security (thanks to our liberal government politicians) but the fact is that today we are in as much or greater danger from violent criminals than we were 150 years ago. Practice, practice & practice as much as possible with whatever you have & pay less attention to bullets & loads.
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