An AR15 or shotgun for my situation? I will eventually get both, but which one first?

[moooose102]

go for the shotgun. imo, it is a better home defense gun (way better chance of hitting the bg, way less chance of a bullet going through walls to hurt your loved ones). with the new slugs they have nowdays, they shoot very respectable groups and are downright deadly. even out to 150 yards if you have a rifled slug barrel. i would buy a 12 gauge, and use #1 buckshot for home defense. i would also buy the rifled slug barrel and some good sabot slugs for hunting with. betwwen the two, you would have everything covered. a 223 is a nice round, but i do not feel it is a great home defense round. the reason i say that is because of the over penetration of these speedy little bullets. even with soft points. you could probably shoot 1/2 way through your house with soft points, and all the way through with 75 grain fmj's. that little 223 is a mean and wicked little round. until recently (i started doing some random penetration tests) i always just thought of it as a plinker. but not any more. buy the shotgun, you will have less money in it with both barrels, you can buy quite a few rounds of ammo, and still have money left over compared to an ar15 platform rifle. that will fill your needs, and make your wife happy. then later, when your finances improve, you can get the ar15 style rifle.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'd go AR first. If you're worried about hunting power, go with an upper in 6.x or one of the .30-cal range.

An AK would work well, too. Cheap, easy to find parts, and I'd be no more worried about 7.62 penetrating at those ranges than I would .223. It's heavier, but it's also slower.

Otherwise, I'd like to add another vote for a compromise. A Saiga 12 or 20--or even the .410 with slugs or one of those odd three-pellet buckshots--would work pretty darn well for home defense and, as long as it's legal to hunt with semiauto shotguns in your area, will bag a deer just as easy. And I'd trust it more than a pump against bears.

Plus, I'm fond of anything that could chunk out a 25-round drum of 12-gauge in a few seconds.

 

[Seven High]

Personally. I would get a SKS for around $250.00 and a Remington 870 for around another $250.00. Both purchases would be cheaper than an AR 15. You would still have money left over for ammunition.

 

[LTB15J]

the AR15 is flexible but so is the shotgun. obviously range is the key factor here; so think about this

the ar15 can go short and long range relatively effectively. by long range i am saying 200 yards effectively, with a 16" barrel running an optic you will have no problem with anything that stands in your way. you dont have to switch ammo, you dont have to prepare for jackhammer recoil, you just point and shoot. when you use all of your ammo, you simply insert a new mag and tap the bolt catch.

the shotgun is best for short to medium distances; but is more flexible in the aspect of ammunition. obviously buckshot is very devistating at short distances, but what if you need a rifles capability? you first need to find a good slug, load it, and pray your practice has paid off. then you need to possibly prepare for follow up shots which are alot slower, but quite devistating. a 70mm slug has alot more kinetic energy than a 5.56x45 round. but its also less stable and loses alot of its velocity over a distance.

shotguns put out big spread with alot of force but it needs to be at proper engagement distances. if you are relying on it to save your ass because you have to 'aim less' then im sorry but your **** outa luck. practice will save you not guessing..

with an AR15, there is not so much prejudice. long range or short range the rifle is just as effective at taking names, has less recoil and is easier to reload and carry. it is not as powerful as a shotgun, but overall the rifle is more effective in regards to ease of use and modularity. LEO's share the same sentiment; as many are taking the plunge to replace their beater 870's with AR15's.

 

[jackdanson]

Personally. I would get a SKS for around $250.00 and a Remington 870 for around another $250.00. Both purchases would be cheaper than an AR 15. You would still have money left over for ammunition.

Good call, I second this.

 

[gotime242]

Due to the space around your house, and the "country" environment, i would definetly go AR.

 

[ugaarguy]

go for the shotgun. imo, it is a better home defense gun (way better chance of hitting the bg, way less chance of a bullet going through walls to hurt your loved ones).

You sure about that?
THR Rifle Forum Reading Library - "Overpenetration" and rifle rounds--the myth that won't die

 

[.303]

+1 on saiga 12ga.
you can also get hi cap drums for hd

 

[JImbothefiveth]

There was a thread on the saiga 12, people reported the shotgun crushing any loaded rounds.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Shotty

I highly recommend the shotgun first.

My 870 express (20 guage) only cost about 200 dollars, a few years ago. A shotgun is very versatile and you can use it for any game from squirrel to bear. Hands down, a shotgun will be the best choice if your home is invaded. A .223 or 556nato round to the chest might not stop someone instantly, but buckshot will. 2-300 dollars isn't a big setback either, and it will take a week tops off the time till you can afford that AR-15. I don't think you need to worry too much about the AWB because AR's would actually be cheaper and very in-demand on the black market if that goes into effect. There are people in my city who sell AR's for 200 dollars flat.

 

[LTB15J]

sure, buckshot will stop ANYTHING in front of it, given the right load and range. but lets dig into the mall ninja aspect, what if you need the distance of a long rifle? you think the slug is going to save you? maybe if you had an optic and a rifled barrel using sabots..

close range is pretty much where the novelty ends for shotguns. why spray buckshot and hope for the best, when you can aim an ar15 and place 3 in the chest. you cant beat that penetration with a shotgun

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Definitely shotgun now. Others later. You can kill anything that walks or flies the planet with appropriate ammo, with a shotgun, and it's absolutely devastating for self-defense.

The above would be my normal answer. But if the wifey is allowing a larger budget right now for the AR (which may not happen again), and in light of imminent Obamanation, I would maybe change up and get the EBR.

 

[deputy tom]

Seven High hit it spot on. SKS and pump SG (Mossberg,Maverick,used 870,etc) and lots of ammo for less than the price of an AR.tom.

 

[frankcostanza]

I think the shotgun would be the way to go. I think you will get more bang for your buck with a good pump action 12ga shotty. A Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 will run you around 250 bucks give or take. That, plus a bunch of shells will still run you less than a decent AR-15. Also, the shotty is pretty versatile compared to the AR-15. Light loads for birds and small game, heavier shot for pheasants and waterfowl, slugs for deer, and buckshot for 2 legged predators. I would say youre covered for just about anything except for long range applications - in which case it would be pretty tough to argue a self defense shooting at long range.

You cant go wrong with an 870.

 

[pinkymingeo]

I'd start with the shotgun, which will give you time to do some research. I had planned on an AR as a home defense weapon, but when I started looking into it decided that it really wouldn't do. Based on what I've read, I don't trust an AR to go bang every time I pull the trigger. Just too sensitive to dirt and crud. I finally got an XCR, though are are many alternatives out there.

 

[biggiesmalls]

you know, if you list "customizable" as a pro for the AR, then that means you're gonna spend some money. and given that there's already a significant price diff btwn an AR and a pump action shotgun, and you're willing to spend the extra money for the rifle, how about you consider a semiauto, mag-fed shotgun for home defense like one of those saigas? seems like you'd be able to keep a few extra mags loaded for an emergency and still be under the cost of a decked out AR rifle. failing that, i'd be just as torn as you are in this situation. guess i'm glad i have both, haha. good luck!


EXAMPLE HERE: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm

 

[Hhrshooter]

The shotgun would be your choice for what you descibe as your situation. A shot gun is capable of good accuracy if you will practice as with any weapon.
Things to consider with the shotgun are:
1. Mossberg make a wonderful shotgun that you can change barrels easily.
(Example, rifle sighted slug barrel or 18 inch Home defence barrel)

2. Protection wise at 15-20 yards or less, nothing beats a shotgun.
(Example: There is but one tool alone that makes such a distinctive sound when chambering a round, everyone knows that sound!)

3. I have never found any weapon to be easily loaded and manipulated with one hand. (Shotgun can be done in 3, AR-15 can be done in 3 but you would have to move the rifle alot.

4. Who said that Obama was going to win? I just don't see it for various reasons.

Dave

 

[Rifleman 173]

I would go with an M-4 type carbine that shoots the 7.62 X 39 ammo or go with a 6.8 SPC carbine. Both will stop a deer in its tracks, defend the manor and family and both are accurate too. I would use the 7.62 X 39 to save money in ammo if things are real tight financially. Trouble is that finding decent magazines for the 7.62 X 39 caliber M-4s is a little hard right now. I have 5 magazines that are 10 rounders to work my version of the M-4 and have ordered two magazines that hold 30 rounds but haven't yet gotten them.

Then again... You could always go with an updated AK type of rifle in 7.62 X 39 for about half the price of any M-4/AR-15 firearm...

 

[HJ857]

I'm voting for the shotgun for the first weapon. Check out the Mossberg 930 SPX, it's new and looks impressive.

 

[Eb1]

You can get a Maverick 88 for $140 if you look, and build a 20" AR 15 for $550if you shop, and buy some used parts.

Both firearms have been a great asset to my collection. I have beat many shooters on the trap with my Mav88, and they had $2000+ guns. I have shot dime groups repeatedly with my Used Colt HBAR and CMMG lower using only A2 irons, and killed a good size deer with it.

I second the thought of buy a shotgun like the Mav88 and an AR lower like from CMMG or other. Then start piecing the AR15 together. You will have a firearm while you build the other. It is a win/win situation.

Cheers.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

AR-15

Pros:
Cheap to practice with and ready supply of ammo
Easily customizable to my immediate needs Just as easy to add goofy stuff you don't
High capacity
Fast reloading
suppression capability I don't see this as a really big advantage, but it sure would be fun
Easier to shoot and reload one handed if injured true
Can use multiple uppers including 6.8 and 22LR if desired But then

Cons:
Underpowered for hunting deer a major food source here Check with your local laws, some states allow you to hunt with most centerfire calibers including .223
May not stop the size bear we have here (small black bears) if one would ever attempt to get into the house (which is doubtful really) If you shoot a bear 30 times with a .223 it's not going to live. A couple years ago a woman killed a bear trying to get into her house with 10 .22lr rounds.
Illegal for hunting on state land and heavily enforced there are 5 round magazines
more moving parts that could possibly break If you maintain it well and buy quality parts, it's not going to unexpectedly break one day/


12 Gauge shotgun (home defense model, shorter barrel length):

Pros:
Devastating close range weapon
less precision required Don't count on that, go digging in the shotgun forum. You still have to aim a shotgun.
Can use slugs for hunting deer at closer ranges Your good out to 100 yards, accurately. In New England, thats all you need
Slugs would most probably stop or redirect a small bear if needed From what I have heard, in Alaska, a 12 GA shotgun with slugs is preferred over a large caliber rifle. I will always use a 12 GA with brenekke slugs for bear mace
Legal to hunt with on state land

Cons:
much shorter range than AR-15 Yes, but I think in the distance you will need to defend yourself is well within the effective range of 00 buckshot
Low capacity Yes, but its also more powerful. While a .223 could do serious damage to a bear I would carry a 12 GA with slugs over that any day. Plus I could blast deer with the 12 GA at the same time.
Harder to carry extra rounds
lack of precision while hunting, even with a slug Not exactly true. Brenekke rifled slugs out of a smooth bore barrel are plenty accurate at 50 yards. I haven't done a lot of shooting at 100 yards but my 20 GA with slugs can do 100 yards all day.
harder to use with one arm if injured / disabled While this is true, I am probably going to be trying to leave the situation instead of shooting back, even though it can come down to that. I beleive the pro of a owning a shotgun outweighs the con in this situation.