Ankle carry only?

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ayoob_ankle_carry_draw.jpg If the threat is not in grappling distance, and you're standing up, I practice the technique Massad Ayoob described in Guns Magazine, April 1996 "Practical Tips for Concealed Carry". Hard to lay hands on that issue now. I'll describe it for educational purposes.

Wear the holster on the inside of your weak side ankle. Move your strong side leg back while bending your weak side knee. Grab the pant leg near the weak side knee and pull up to expose the gun. Grab the gun with your strong side hand. You keep your head up, back nearly vertical, with your eyes on the threat the whole time. You can also kick or recover and move from that position if need be.

If a gun is on your ankle and that's all you have, IMO, this technique helps mediate the problem of accessing the gun while standing.

Edit to add a photo of a twenty+ year younger Massad drawing from an ankle holster. A photo beats words.
 
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Arnold pulled a full size beretta from his ankle in kindergarten cop. That said, ive tried every manner of carry And ankle, along with SOB are the two I have no interest in trying again. Their respective holsters are in the "holster box". If I can't iwb, owb, or shoulder holster then I'll stick my jetfire in my pocket (I sometimes do while on my morning jog or when its shorts/ no shirt weather) or stay home. Large upper body mass = small chicken legs= no ankle carry. Lol. That said, even Arnold caught crap over his under developed calves back in his Olympia days. Also Many men develop a bad back/ pysiatica from extra weight from their wallet/ keys etc all on one side. strapping anything to one ankle as far away from your core as possible and swinging it around all day is asking for the same imo.
 
harrygunner said:
this technique helps mediate the problem of accessing the gun while standing.
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I remember reading that issue and actually tried the technique...as a supplement to my using that carry while seated...and it works fine, except for one flaw/exception

It assumes, much like the 21 foot rule against a knife, that you'll have the distance from your opponent to execute it
 
It assumes, much like the 21 foot rule against a knife, that you'll have the distance from your opponent to execute it
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That flaw is inherent to ankle carry while standing. His technique is a tool to keep in the box.
 
I just got a shot timer so I decided to try timing ankle vs belt for myself. As I wrote in my earlier reply, I used to carry ankle-only, but I never timed myself. I tried a "Bill Drill." With a concealment garmet that I pull up (not sweep back), my times for fist shot from the belt started at 2.0s with 0.20 splits. With a few reps, I was able to get the first shot down to 1.50s. Without the overshirt, my best time to first shot was 1.30s. Splits stayed consistent on everything and I don't think that matters. From the ankle with canvas Carhartt dungarees, my first try, first shot was 1.70s. I did several reps and had first shot times between 1.47 and 1.80s.

My total time for the 5 shot drill varied from 2.1s without concealment and from concealment, times ran from best of 2.3s to 3s.

To me, this confirms that drawing from the ankle is fast enough. I always carried there before with the idea that I would never "need and not have," and that was all. I wasn't trying to win fast-draw. But I didn't feel it was slow or that there was any speed penalty. What is obvious is that I had to stop moving to draw, and that my choice of gun was limited. I use a "Centennial" style J frame.
 
rpenmanparker said:
I know ankle carry for men and women wearing slacks is popular as a back up strategy but what about as the sole carry method? Sure, drawing from that location isn’t going to be smooth or fast, but is it reasonable? It wouldn’t protect one against all threats, but would it reduce your risk from attack enough make sense? Just to be clear, I don’t currently carry due to just not being willing to adapt my wardrobe to the task. Your thoughts?
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If you go to a church that includes "Kumbaya" hugs as regular practice, the little old lady that feels your pistol on your belt, is NOT going to be quiet about it. :eek: She's gonna light up the whole room with something like, "Oh my word! You are wearing a gun??!!"

If you need a "clean" waistline for a family gathering, (my wife likes it when I tuck my shirt in) an ankle holster is a good option.

Also, drawing from an ankle holster isn't the "one legged flamingo hop". :confused: The best draw is taking a knee and getting your handgun firmly in your hand, and then engaging if you have to. There is something about the human reptillian brain stem that kicks in; taking a knee during a shooting situation makes you want to get some cover and concealment as long as you are down there.
Now it's not the fastest draw, and drawing against the drawn gun or knife at close quarters, isn't advantageous at all. But it's better that doing the "where is my gun Macarena" when the shooting starts, knowing that the darn thing is still in the glove compartment. :cool:
 
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Body type could well play a role. I knew for me it was a terrible option but hadn't bothered to think of why. As a powerlifter I'm told I have the worst possible body type for deadlift, So maybe the worst type for getting to an ankle as well. Long legs and torso with comparably short arms. Think manute bol vs Mary lou Retton, the same things don't work well for both.
 
rpenmanparker said:
Any carried gun will reduce your risk from an attack some amount.
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I can show you quite a few instances where the opposite was true.

I believe that you need to be able to grapple and sprint while carrying your gun in whatever position you choose. If you can do those things while ankle carrying, then go for it. In many cases, ankle carry doesn't work well at all while sprinting. You should not count on being able to have the gun in your hand if you need to run.
 
labnoti said:
I did ankle carry alone for a while. It was easy to conceal and easy to carry. I found the draw to be very fast in practice. I do not kneel to draw. I raise my knee so the gun is almost at thigh height (just above the other knee). From here, the draw is easier than drawing from the waistband which is too high (fastdraw uses leg-height rigs). One of the advantages of drawing from the ankle is you can push the holster down at the same time you pull the gun up. I have totally flat abs and good balance. Ankle carry also has good but not great accessibility when seated in the car.

The main reason I quit carrying there exclusively was the idea that it forces one to either draw or run. I'd rather have more options. My mentality earlier was "rather have and not need." As long as I had something, that was good enough. The secondary reason I stopped ankle-alone was because it limits the kind of gun that is practical.
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Can you define "very fast" in terms of seconds? Even if it were three seconds to the first shot starting from a standing position–which is probably being generous–that's a long time to be standing on one foot in a life threatening situation.
 
JTHunter said:
One possibility of ankle carry would be for you to act all "panicky" and drop your wallet/keys at your feet. The perp will very likely tell you to pick them up and hand them to him. When you do, use you torso to block his view as you bend over and pull your piece with one hand while the other with the wallet/keys runs "interference" and keep your gun under the wallet until you can get the barrel pointed at the perp.
It may not work but it is worth considering. ;)
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That's an awful lot of scripting and choreography for a gunfight. The times overseas and domestically that I've drawn have been decidedly more improvised affairs.
 
JeffG said:
If you go to a church that includes "Kumbaya" hugs as regular practice, the little old lady that feels your pistol on your belt, is NOT going to be quiet about it. :eek: She's gonna light up the whole room with something like, "Oh my word! You are wearing a gun??!!"
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This is one of the reasons I switched to appendix carry. Auntie hugs are no problem whatsoever. Rest assured most houses of worship won't have people hugging each other that tightly. Smartcarry is also a good option in those situations if the occasion calls for a tucked in shirt and slacks with no cover garment.
 
rpenmanparker said:
I know ankle carry for men and women wearing slacks is popular as a back up strategy but what about as the sole carry method? Sure, drawing from that location isn’t going to be smooth or fast, but is it reasonable? It wouldn’t protect one against all threats, but would it reduce your risk from attack enough make sense? Just to be clear, I don’t currently carry due to just not being willing to adapt my wardrobe to the task. Your thoughts?
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I tried ankle carry for a while as a backup and occasionally as a primary. Since that time, it's been displaced my much better carry methods IMO. Originally, I'd use ankle carry for cases where I didn't want to risk printing behind the hip, or I was driving long distances, or at a job where slacks and a tucked-in shirt were the uniform with no cover garment. Here are a few alternatives to those use cases that didn't exist (or at least weren't known to me) 15 years ago:

Printing behind the hip: If printing behind the hip is a problem due to an open office, hugs from an auntie, etc, switching to appendix is a great way around this. We live in a golden age of holsters that make appendix carry extremely comfortable and easy to conceal. Additionally, it's fast, easier to retain, keeps the gun in one's peripheral vision, etc.

Driving: Shoulder rig, or some type of car holster. I once had to react to a threat in a car, and it sucked. It would have sucked worse if I had to take my eyes off of, or show my back to, the guy stalking toward me with a tire iron while drawing from the ankle.

Slacks and a tucked in shirt: Smartcarry, paired with a single stack like a Glock 43. While it's not as optimal as IWB, a properly worn smartcarry rig is going to be faster than the ankle, without the other disadvantages. Additionally, it's about the deepest concealment one can get. There's nothing ankle carry does that a smartcarry can't do better, with the possible exception of drawing while seated/belted.

If you decide to go with ankle carry, I'd suggest adapting your tactics and training. With a gun carried on the belt line, many threats can be dealt with by seeking cover and/or firing if warranted. With ankle carry, that changes to: Seek cover; draw if time/place allows; assess (because in those seconds the situation will probably have changed); employ the weapon if needed.
 
labnoti said:
I did ankle carry alone for a while. It was easy to conceal and easy to carry. I found the draw to be very fast in practice. I do not kneel to draw. I raise my knee so the gun is almost at thigh height (just above the other knee). From here, the draw is easier than drawing from the waistband which is too high (fastdraw uses leg-height rigs). One of the advantages of drawing from the ankle is you can push the holster down at the same time you pull the gun up. I have totally flat abs and good balance. Ankle carry also has good but not great accessibility when seated in the car.

The main reason I quit carrying there exclusively was the idea that it forces one to either draw or run. I'd rather have more options. My mentality earlier was "rather have and not need." As long as I had something, that was good enough. The secondary reason I stopped ankle-alone was because it limits the kind of gun that is practical.
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Your team technique is horrible IMO. If you're in a confrontation dancing on one leg is one of the worst things you can do. If your attacker can easily push you over with one hand if they can close fast enough.

Dropping your wallet to get close to your ankle is maybe a last ditch effort but not one I would rely on. What if your attacker says "leave it on the ground"?

I agree with training to drop to one knee to draw. Not the best position to put yourself in but at least you'll much more stable than standing on one leg.
 
This reminds me of a humorous incident that happened at my home. I had been given an IWB holster, of black Cordura like material, with tough textured surfaces that were supposed to hold the gun in place without belt attachments.

Well, one day I tried it on, with my S&W Model 19, 2 1/2" barrel. Well, the thing didn't work, and gun and holster slid down my leg and into the top of my boot. Now with gun and holster in my boot top, along with my leg that had already been occupying that space, it was wedged. I could not pull up the leg of my Wranglers. So, what to do?

I undid my belt and trousers and let my jeans fall around my ankles. About that time my wife entered the room.

"What are you doing?" she asked, only mildly surprised. (Similar incidents occur at our house. After forty six years, she's seldom surprised.)

"I'm going for my gun," was my response.


Bob Wright
 
psyopspec said:
Can you define "very fast" in terms of seconds? Even if it were three seconds to the first shot starting from a standing position–which is probably being generous–that's a long time to be standing on one foot in a life threatening situation.
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Post 31. 1.5s and not slower than what I can do drawing from the waistband. What someone else can do faster is irrelevant to me. If my first shot on target is 1.5s, I'm not standing around with my foot in the air any longer than it would take to stomp a foot as fast I can. That is not some difficult balancing act or ballet. I'm not a competitor and I don't script my self-defense encounters ahead of time. Like I wrote, I carried there so I would not "need and not have." I'm not interested in racing imaginary "bad guys" to the drop or trying to choreograph a hypothetical confrontation.
 
psyopspec said:
This is one of the reasons I switched to appendix carry. Auntie hugs are no problem whatsoever. Rest assured most houses of worship won't have people hugging each other that tightly. Smartcarry is also a good option in those situations if the occasion calls for a tucked in shirt and slacks with no cover garment.
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"Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"
 
Okay, here's another pair of scenarios for you.
1 - when you bend down to pick up your wallet, instead of drawing your ankle carry, lunge forward and head-butt them in the belly or groin and knock them on their butts. Then draw.
OR
2 - again, instead of drawing, either grab one or both legs and pull hard, causing them to fall backwards.

In either of these scenarios, you may be under the sightline of their gun meaning they would miss you if they fired when you do these. When they fall backwards, they are also likely to lose their grip on their weapon, giving you a chance to knock it out of reach.
I'm not saying these would work, just "might", giving you a possible opening to save your life by doing the unexpected.
 
Fantasy scenarios are off-topic for an "ankle carry" thread, but I would remind anyone considering ankle carry that there are 5 elements necessary to secure a self-defense justification for a shooting and one of them is avoidance. Many states have statutes imposing a "duty to retreat" and even those states where there are "stand your ground" laws, your legal defense is substantially eroded if you have a chance to avoid the confrontation and you opt for a clever tactic that ends with you shooting someone. Avoidance is a core principle not just legally, but also for our survival. Whenever you make a choice to stay and fight instead of leaving, you also erode another key element of self-defense justification: innocence. To have an air-tight self-defense defense, the attack has to be "unprovoked." Standing your ground to try out your IDPA-ninja skills seriously damages the argument that you were innocent and non-provocative. It also raises the chances of you dying well above zero. Leaving should be one of our most coveted options should it ever present itself. And as it has been pointed out, an ankle-gun is inaccessible when you're running away. That doesn't render an ankle gun useless, but it does mean you would do well to have another option in addition to an ankle gun.
 
JTHunter said:
.....
In either of these scenarios, you may be under the sightline of their gun meaning they would miss you if they fired when you do these. ....
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If an opponent has the drop on you, meaning their gun is drawn and pointed at you and you're still unprepared, the response that is most likely to have a favorable outcome is compliance. It is not the time to counter-attack. Hopefully, they get what they want and leave. You win. If you are going to launch a counter-attack, you have to wait your turn. If they're standing over you with a gun drawn and your gun is still in the holster, it's not your turn.
 
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