Another guy having dilemma choosing his first lever action cartridge

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Nam Le

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Hi,

I can't seem to make up my mind on the first lever action cartridge to buy, perhaps between .357 mag and 30-30 win.

I've read tons of articles about comparing one cartridge with others, but none seems to help... It's mostly because of my specific situation:

### Defensive use:
I've already had enough fire power that both I and my wife can use for home defense: a tactical shotgun, a 9mm carbine, a 9mm hand gun, and a 6" .357 mag revolver. Maybe putting another gun at another corner of the house is a legit idea, but I don't see it really important for now.

I also do not see me driving on rural, isolated & dangerous road often enough for the need of a "truck gun". Besides, I live in NJ where having a loaded gun on the road is completely out of the picture.

### Hunting:
I am not a hunter and although I would love to become one, there's a very long way for me to go to even start with hunting.

Well let's assume I will manage to get to the woods in 1-2 years time, I will probably start small in order to get used to the idea of roaming through the wilderness and the idea of cleaning up the game. I've already got a .22LR rifle to start.

Talking about range, my personal preference is to use lever action for only short range (without a scope, perhaps), and use a bolt action for anything longer than 200 yards. My choice of action base on range is: shotgun - semi - lever - bolt. Don't ask me why, it's just personal preference.

### Plinking:
Plinking is kind of pointless to me. I go to the range only for training and testing new ammo/gun. So let's not talk about having a plinking gun.


So, we all can say that the real issue for me is to find a purpose for such lever action rifle, and yet I still want to have one, soon, in order to complete my arsenal.

Looking forward to a near future, these things may (or may not) happen:

* Move to another state, probably PA or NC. I'm already so sick of this NJ/NY area.
* Start hunting at varmint, small game or birds
* Go camping in a mountain somewhere not NJ or NY.

So, .357 Mag or 30-30 Win or a longer-range cartridge?
 
30-30:

More available and may well be cheaper to purchase - there are literally millions of Marlin 336 and Win 94 out there
Offers longer range effectiveness - good to 150 yards and, with Hornady LVR/FTX loads - 200 yards
More of a classic (nothing against 357 Mag, mind you)

Neither of these cartridges, nor the platform, make for good varmint or small birds hunting. Great camp rifle.


Good luck and enjoy.
 
.30-30 is best for you IMO.

DocRock is correct. You can find a used .30-30 for hundreds less than a new .357 lever gun.

.30-30 is a manageable round for an adult shooter. Ammo is plentiful. A time-tested caliber and your best bet, I think.
 
the 30-30 is a higher power cartridge than .357 - 30-30 it is a staple deer hunting round for wooded areas. you're probably good up to black bear. depending on your interests - if you see Moose or larger game a possibility, why not also look at a 30-06, which is going to satisfy more or less any medium game you run across - unless you are on a Safari hunting tigers and elephants. It also has the potential for better long range shots - depending on the territory, seeing game several hundred yards away really isn't that far.
 
Nam Le

When I went looking for a lever action I was thinking .30-30, .357, and .45 Colt. The two pistol caliber guns I already had handguns for those cartridges so that was an easy choice. But I came across this used Winchester 94 in .30-30 at a gun show that was priced very attractively (it was a Canadian Centennial Commemorative rifle that had been fired and didn't have the box for it).

At this same show while I didn't find a .357 lever gun I did find a like new Rossi M92 in .45 Colt. It was used but in the box, never fired, and it was priced only a little bit more than the Winchester. It was a perfect fit for my single action revolvers (3 of them were in .45 Colt; in fact I picked up another one at that same show, a new in the box Beretta Stampede). Thought about the Winchester a lot because it was in great shape at a great price but then I thought what was I going to do with it. I didn't hunt anymore and a .30-30 is not something I want to plink at targets all day long with (besides ammo costs would kind of get expensive after awhile). Basically it came down to the fact that I really didn't have any pressing need for the Winchester .30-30 but I could make good use out of that little Rossi carbine so that's what I went with.
 
I'm with the other .30-30 fans. You can find a used lever in .30-30 easier and cheaper than one in .357.
 
357 is IMO just ok for hunting but nice for plinking. But considering you say you don't do either but would like to hunt at some time I have to suggest 44mag, 45LC or 45-70. Think the 44 and 45 would be less expensive on ammo.
I had a Marlin 357 but after shooting it for a while It just made me not consider it when I headed to the woods. It's not something I would want to piss off a feral hog with. After chatting with a few 44mag and 45LC users and finding they to had simular dilemmas I sold it and got a 44mag. 44 because I have a 44mag revolver. First deer I took at about 70 yards went down like a rock. I honestly do not believe the 357 would be near as fast effective. I would trust a 240g JSP 44mag at twice that range.
 
Keep in mind N.J. is shotgun only for everything except groundhogs and coyotes (I think they are the only two). I don’t think you can even use a.22 for small game. I would go with the .357. Unless you have land of your own it can be hard to find places to shoot in some parts of N.J. some gun ranges are pistol caliber only so I think that would give you more opportunities to shoot.
 
I like my lever action slick and handy. I vote for either .357 or .44. If you want big, .45-70 or .444 Marlin. All easy to load for and you can chuck lead out of them. I suppose you could load lead for the .30-30. I just never did. The round never appealed to me. If I want a .30, I'll grab a bolt gun in .308 or -06.
 
Nam Le said:
Hi,

I can't seem to make up my mind on the first lever action cartridge to buy, perhaps between .357 mag and 30-30 win.

I've read tons of articles about comparing one cartridge with others, but none seems to help... It's mostly because of my specific situation:

### Defensive use:
I've already had enough fire power that both I and my wife can use for home defense: a tactical shotgun, a 9mm carbine, a 9mm hand gun, and a 6" .357 mag revolver. Maybe putting another gun at another corner of the house is a legit idea, but I don't see it really important for now.

I also do not see me driving on rural, isolated & dangerous road often enough for the need of a "truck gun". Besides, I live in NJ where having a loaded gun on the road is completely out of the picture.

### Hunting:
I am not a hunter and although I would love to become one, there's a very long way for me to go to even start with hunting.

Well let's assume I will manage to get to the woods in 1-2 years time, I will probably start small in order to get used to the idea of roaming through the wilderness and the idea of cleaning up the game. I've already got a .22LR rifle to start.

Talking about range, my personal preference is to use lever action for only short range (without a scope, perhaps), and use a bolt action for anything longer than 200 yards. My choice of action base on range is: shotgun - semi - lever - bolt. Don't ask me why, it's just personal preference.

### Plinking:
Plinking is kind of pointless to me. I go to the range only for training and testing new ammo/gun. So let's not talk about having a plinking gun.


So, we all can say that the real issue for me is to find a purpose for such lever action rifle, and yet I still want to have one, soon, in order to complete my arsenal.

Looking forward to a near future, these things may (or may not) happen:

* Move to another state, probably PA or NC. I'm already so sick of this NJ/NY area.
* Start hunting at varmint, small game or birds
* Go camping in a mountain somewhere not NJ or NY.

So, .357 Mag or 30-30 Win or a longer-range cartridge?
Click to expand...

30-30 by all means. 357 is fine for just plinking and very short range hunting. 30-30 has taken all the big Game in North America and has much more range and power than a .357. I am not a fan of shooting pistol cartridges in rifles because you don't gain enough to make it worth it to carry a rifle when you could just carry a pistol. For paper targets it doesn't matter.
 
If you have any inkling that you MAY hunt deer sized game eventually and absolutely would not buy another rifle for that purpose, I'd buy a 30-30.

Any other circumstances, I'd get a 357. Not only is ammo cheaper than 30-30 (almost half the price), but you can also use 38 Special in a 357. Finally, you already have a 357 revolver so you wont have to stock another caliber.
 
Sounds like you just want a fun gun for punching paper. Normally I'd say 30-30. The rifles are much more common and much less expensive, but I just don't see you needing the power for your intended purposes. The 357's are harder to find, and the rifles much more costly, but ammo is cheaper and more fun to shoot. Especially since you already have a 357 revolver. If hunting were even remotely in the picture then I'd say 30-30.

But what I really think you need is a quality 22 lever gun. The problem is that all of the options I'd prefer are no longer regular production guns. I'd have to shop around for a used one. The Henry offerings are decent, but I simply don't like them.

The only quality 22 lever gun still in production is the Browning. I have no personal experience, but based on reputation this is what I'd buy if I were you.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/863483079


My 2 Marlins with the Winchester in the middle.


levers 003.JPG
 
Leverguns are awesome, but since you don't have a defined purpose I'd go 357 or 44 if you can find one for a decent deal. The general camp gun or woods bumming utility of a levergun is even better when the ammo is cheap. You cannot go wrong with a 30-30 either though, so it all comes down to dollars. Do you want to save money on the ammo or the rifle?
 
You have a ton of options. I will recommend that you seriously think about what you're gong to use it for, where you're going to shoot it, what your recoil tolerance is and how much you want to pay for the gun and to feed it. They're my favorite style of rifle and I have 13 of them, from a 16" Henry .22 S,L,LR, through Trapper-length .357. 44, .45 Colt pistol caliber guns, 20" .30-30's, a .35 Rem all the way up to a 26" .45/70 Marlin 1895 CB. If you don't reload, nearly 3 bucks a shot for basic .45/70 factory loads gets old really quick.

Hunting deer/bear etc? Big-bore pistol or .30-30, .35 Rem, .444, .45/70 etc.

Self defense? Pistol caliber in anything from .327 mag (Henry) up to a Puma .454 Casull.

Once you have the use figured out, then it's time to look around to find the one that fits you, your purpose and your wallet best.

Stay safe.
 
Thanks for all the replies and sorry if I don't quote you directly - I'm adding more of my thoughts on the points below and hope to receive further comments:

Gumby0961 said:
Buy one that's same caliber as your pistol, then you can share ammo. Buy in bulk. ?
Click to expand...
I've read this a lot, but I don't think my pistol and my rifle would ever share the same ammo, perhaps same caliber, but not ammo.

I'm a small shape 160 lbs and 5'5" so constantly shooting 158 gr .357 mag from a revolver is not a very nice thing to me, but that's what expected to utilize the rifle's full potential.
It will come the day when I have to stock different grains and ammo type of the same .357 mag caliber for the pistol and the rifle.

In emergency, yes I can just put any of those .357 into either guns and shoot. However in hunting or training or a prepared self-defense situation, I will mostly use different types of bullet for the pistol and the rifle.

Besides, I am already stockpiling 5 different calibers, and giving the long shelf-life of the ammo, I don't mind adding a 6th to the list.

DocRock said:
30-30:
More available and may well be cheaper to purchase - there are literally millions of Marlin 336 and Win 94 out there
Offers longer range effectiveness - good to 150 yards and, with Hornady LVR/FTX loads - 200 yards
Neither of these cartridges, nor the platform, make for good varmint or small birds hunting. Great camp rifle.
Good luck and enjoy.
Click to expand...
The price for, say Marlin 336 vs 1894 or Henry Big Boy vs Lever gun, are kind of the same to me.
I am not sure if my eyes will be up to the task for 150 yards and beyond, and putting a scope on these lever rifles defeat the purpose of a quick action gun. If I need a scope, that will be on a bolt gun.
I didn't intend to use this gun on varmint & birds - just mentioned them to have everything on the table.

beeenbag said:
357 mag for your purposes, which are... nothing specific. So I say 357 because you will get to shoot it more for the $ you spend on ammo. Especially if you get one that feeds 38s well.

you don’t have to have a special role for a gun if it’s fun AND cheap to shoot.
Click to expand...
As mentioned, I don't shoot... just to shoot.
I will only train with what I intend to use for the gun. So for the rifle, I will definitely shoot only 158 gr .357 mag.
Therefore the flexibility to shoot .38 spl has nothing to do with me.

film495 said:
the 30-30 is a higher power cartridge than .357 - 30-30 it is a staple deer hunting round for wooded areas. you're probably good up to black bear. depending on your interests - if you see Moose or larger game a possibility, why not also look at a 30-06, which is going to satisfy more or less any medium game you run across - unless you are on a Safari hunting tigers and elephants. It also has the potential for better long range shots - depending on the territory, seeing game several hundred yards away really isn't that far.
Click to expand...
I hope I will never face a bear (any color) in my whole life, same for tigers or other predators.
And if I ever up my game to moose level, I will definitely buy a new gun. So, 30-06 is not for now.

forty_caliber said:
Get a new lever action 45-70 Govt. You've got 30 caliber stuff covered. Go for some knock down power.
Click to expand...

I didn't check the ammo price of 45-70 before this COVID-era but from what I am seeing now, it's like 2 times higher than 30-30 and 4 times higher than .357 mag.
So unless I have a specific target I would like to knock down in mind, let's save those more powerful calibers for future (same for 30-06 as above).

skeeterfogger said:
357 is IMO just ok for hunting but nice for plinking. But considering you say you don't do either but would like to hunt at some time I have to suggest 44mag, 45LC or 45-70. Think the 44 and 45 would be less expensive on ammo.
I had a Marlin 357 but after shooting it for a while It just made me not consider it when I headed to the woods. It's not something I would want to piss off a feral hog with. After chatting with a few 44mag and 45LC users and finding they to had simular dilemmas I sold it and got a 44mag. 44 because I have a 44mag revolver. First deer I took at about 70 yards went down like a rock. I honestly do not believe the 357 would be near as fast effective. I would trust a 240g JSP 44mag at twice that range.
Click to expand...

Since I don't have 44 nor 45 pistols at the moment (and don't intend to get one), I think your comment is more in line with 30-30.

kevin123 said:
Keep in mind N.J. is shotgun only for everything except groundhogs and coyotes (I think they are the only two). I don’t think you can even use a.22 for small game. I would go with the .357. Unless you have land of your own it can be hard to find places to shoot in some parts of N.J. some gun ranges are pistol caliber only so I think that would give you more opportunities to shoot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my plan is to drive cross PA border and hunt there instead. I've heard of the Delaware water gap area.
Same thing for rifle range beyond 50 yards - just cross the border.

d2wing said:
30-30 by all means. 357 is fine for just plinking and very short range hunting. 30-30 has taken all the big Game in North America and has much more range and power than a .357. I am not a fan of shooting pistol cartridges in rifles because you don't gain enough to make it worth it to carry a rifle when you could just carry a pistol. For paper targets it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Well a rifle is a lot more effective than a pistol beyond 25 yards. But I think you've made a very good point.
 
If the intent is to hunt deer and the state you're going to allows it, the .30-30 is somewhat superior. However, many light 30-30s are not pleasant to shoot. I'd look for something with a recoil pad if you go that route.

In general the .357 would be much more enjoyable and inexpensive to shoot (if it feeds .38s), but it seems you don't have an interest in shooting for recreation so that may not matter.

Without deciding on the purpose for the rifle, I don't see how this question can be answered. We can't give you a purpose...
 
Everyone needs a 30-30, Why? Just because its an American classic that you can find ammo anywhere. Anyone can shoot it because the recoil isn't bad. It will kill most things walking out to 150 yards or more. You can reload it with bullets from 95 to 200grns, cast, plated and jacketed. Talk about versatile. Maybe I'm biased. I have 4 lever action and one bolt action 30-30. Just get one.
 
357 is a whole different animal out of a rifle as opposed to a pistol. It is a very capable round on anything inside 100 yds. And a 44 even more so. I'd get one of those 2. 30/30 is just not fun to shoot. And the pistol caliber guns are a lighter and handier package.
 
So far this is the advantages of the two cartridges that's meaningful to me:

.357
- Cheaper ammo
- Higher capacity
- Can share ammo with my revolver in an emergency
- Can do whatever the 30-30 can within 100 yards, or perhaps 75 yards
- Less recoil

30-30
- Cheaper guns
- Longer range, like 150 vs 100 yards
- More predator-proof
- More worthy of an upgrade when I've already got my revolver and the 9 mm carbine

I guess I will have to decide base on this list.

A couple other questions which also help me:

1. Do you think a 20" barrel is good for a camp gun, utility gun, truck gun, etc... and not merely for hunting?
Or is it best to be a 16" or 18.5" at most?

2. For those uses, would there ever be a need to shoot beyond 100 yards?

3. How much recoil difference between the two?
 
greyling22 said:
357 is a whole different animal out of a rifle as opposed to a pistol. It is a very capable round on anything inside 100 yds. And a 44 even more so. I'd get one of those 2. 30/30 is just not fun to shoot. And the pistol caliber guns are a lighter and handier package.
Click to expand...
Hmm I can't quite follow the term "fun to shoot" that you and the others were using. Can you elaborate more?
Is it just about lesser recoil?
 
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