Another Remington M-700 AD on safety release

[H&Hhunter]

This was posted from another web sight from a PH in South Africa.

Guys I've personally seen Remingtons fire on safety release, one inside the cab of my truck.

BECAREFULL WITH THOSE MUZZLES!!! This is a really good example of why we need to pay attention to the safety rules!!

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Issue number 2 there was hunter in camp with me but was hunting with another PH. I sat one evening with him and he told me this story which occured with his hunting partner with him.

He was using a Remington rifle in 300 mag. While in the driveway/ farmhouse area of the landowners home he was unloading the rifle. The safety had been on while a round chambered during the hunt. He slid off the safety and the gun fired. It is not possible that he hit or bumped the trigger. He had shell cases in his closed hand the moved the safety forward. His fingers were grasping the cases so they were not free to use for anything else.

Oddly enough he had this gun to a gunsmith to inspect for the "rumored" problem before the hunt. There was nothing wrong with the gun. Passed the inspection 100%! Yet here is another Remington Model rifle which fired as the safety was moved off! Now I know this man personally and I will defend that his capabilities are as good as anyone I have ever met or known in my whole carrer. I'm absolutely certain 100% that this occured as stated. It's not the first time I have had a hunters rifle accidentally discharge by moving the safety off. Both times were Remington rifles.

It's spooky in my job now to hunt with a guy using a Remington and a chambered round while he is behind me! What do you do with this kind of gun? You cannot in good conscience sell this to an unsuspecting person. It's not a used car! Is it worth having it inspected again, if it had just passed the tests and been determined to be good and safe?

I suppose it's why they make a Three Position retrofit aftermarket safety for this model. Maybe that would correct the problem? Thank goodness that the fellow whom this happened to was pointing that gun safely! What a mess something like this could end up being. I'm afraid after having this happen two times now, to good experienced riflemen that I would just not feel comfortable owning a 700. By all means if you own this model have it expertly checked and retrofit what ever needed to make it safe. Make certain that the gunsmith checking it also has plenty of expertise on this problem and knows what to look for. It seems clear that even a good gunsmith can bless a rifle and it's still bad. The fella this happened to visits this site. Maybe if he feels like it he can correct or add something to my text here. If not then what I have written is accurate to the best of my memory.

Most important always keep that muzzle safe. You just cannot know when a gun will fire 100% of the time.

 

[Art Eatman]

My grandfather, my father and my uncle all told me back when I was a kid to never trust the safety on a rifle.

So, I've developed two habits: First off, I always check the safety fairly regularly to see if it works properly. Then, when hunting, if I have a round in the chamber the bolt handle is up until I locate game. When the bolt handle is up, it doesn't matter if the safety works or doesn't work.

There are times when I'll use the safety, but that doesn't mean I really trust it.

Art

 

[smokemaker]

I've looked at 700's in gunshops that have had trigger jobs done on them, and they either have "fired" when the safety is flicked off, or one did it when the bolt closed. I don't have much experience with the trigger group on a 700, so I don't know why it happens.

 

[dakotasin]

smoke- typically this happens because someone got a little carried away w/ the 'weight' screw. there are 3 screws on a remington trigger group, and as such, many people think they are easy to adjust (they are) and hard to mess up (they aren't). this fix isn't hard - just turn the poundage back up to 1.5-2 pounds and be safe... there is much more on this topic, but that's all i'll cover for now.

as for the remington-firing-by-itself... please... improper maintenance of anything will cause it to fail eventually - and ain't nobody that can run fast enough to give me a 3-position safety for free!

i always hope stories like this one that routinely flood the web (its a constant topic between the gunboards) will result in remington rifles being sold en masse for cheap... never happens... i've even seen somebody claim to have a faulty gun, and that was why he was selling it, yet he expected full retail... oh well.

shouldn't trust any manual safety, anyway.

 

[smokemaker]

Don't get me as anti Remington now. I'm not, but I see where some people could be (Think 7-1-0) I love my 572, and have had good luck with 700's and 722's thru the years. But I have seen some lemons (of course I've seen some model 70 lemons too.)

 

[H&Hhunter]

Smoke,

There is a HUGE difference between a mechanical failure and a design flaw. This safety problem on M-700's is a known deficiency, Remington knows about it, they've been sued over it on several occasions. Shooters know about it it is fairly well aknowledged in the shooting world yet people will sit here and defend this flaw because it happens to be on their brand rifle.

Remington needs to fix this problem.

The M-700 that went off in my truck was stock factory rifle.. No trigger job.

Modern Winchesters have tons of problems. But at least for now, they have a sear block safety and a reliable trigger group.

 

[formerflyer]

Let me discuss one major distinction that I think might be getting lost. We all know of firearms that have design or production flaws. Ruger rifles tend to either be very adequately accurate, or not very accurate at all. Winchester is not paying close attention to tolerances on many of their production rifles, resulting in various problems (difficulty mounting scopes, poor accuracy occasionally, etc.) Remington 700-based actions have a lousy extractor setup. Savage used to be known for a rougher than heck finish and wood that was vintage 2x4. Etc. . .

The distinction between these problems and the Remington-Go-Boom-When-You-Release-Safety problem is monumental. The above are annoyances or major inconveniences. The Remington problem can be (is?) (has been?) FATAL! We’re not talking about a rifle that won’t group to your satisfaction; we’re talking about a rifle that might kill someone!

This distinction might be too subtle for some here to appreciate, but I think most of you will agree that it puts the above mentioned problem in a completely different category from “I’ve seen some BRAND-X lemons too.”

To me, this is right up there with the surplus WWII Japanese rifles that have a tendency for the breech velocity to exceed the muzzle velocity. Or the rumored problems with the Blaser that indicates that you might want to wear a catcher’s mask when you shoot one.

 

[waterhouse]

Then, when hunting, if I have a round in the chamber the bolt handle is up until I locate game. When the bolt handle is up, it doesn't matter if the safety works or doesn't work.

Great advice, my dad had me doing the same thing ever since I got my first bolt .22.

I don't hunt with rifles any more, but even when I'm at the range I leave the bolt up until I'm ready to shoot.

 

[hps1]

Originally posted by formerflyer: QUOTE]The distinction between these problems and the Remington-Go-Boom-When-You-Release-Safety problem is monumental.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely!

There have been numerous reports of 700's firing upon release of safety. Remington had/has? a recall out and would/will? alter the safety on later model 700's so that the rifle can be unloaded without taking the rifle off safe.

Originally posted by dakotasin:

typically this happens because someone got a little carried away w/ the 'weight' screw. there are 3 screws on a remington trigger group, and as such, many people think they are easy to adjust

While this can be a problem, it was not an issue when a brand new 40XC (Rem. custom shop target rifle based on the 700 action) that I had purchased and was preparing to sight in malfunctioned.

I was preparing to fire the first round through the new rifle from prone position. Since this was the first Rem. I had owned, I inadvertently had applied the safety and when the trigger was squeezed, the rifle did not fire, as would be expected. I then pushed the safety off with my thumb and trigger finger (other fingers no where near the trigger) and the gun fired!

Personally, I prefer the Mauser/Mod. 70 Win. safety that blocks the firing pin to any safety that blocks only the sear, and basically recognize the fact that most mechanical devices can fail, therefore prefer to use Art's method of leaving bolt handle up and muzzle control as the number one safety precautions.

Always keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction!

Regards,
hps

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Back in 2000 or 2001 was a story about a lady (Mrs. Barber) who shot and killed her son because of an AD with a defective REM 700. Apparently, Mrs. Barber was trying to unload her rible and it WAS pointed in a safe direction (according to her lawyer who spoke on her behalf). She shifted the rifle to get more leverage and that left the rifle pointed at the horse trailer. She managed to get the safety off and the gun discharged. The round traveled through the trailer and killed her son who was sitting on the other sides.

The important thing here to note is that the gun was not pointed in a safe direction when it discharged. What Mrs. Barber was doing a few moments before the discharge, keeping the gun pointed safely, is not completely relevent because she then changed the direction of the gun to an unsafe direction. A horse trailer is not a safe backstop. Not only did she point the gun unsafely, but she failed to know what was down range of where her gun was pointed. She might have acted differently had she known her son was behind the trailer somewhere, but it is a little late now for that consideration.