Any muscle memory issues switching between an 870 and a 500/590?

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jason_W

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
2,203
Location
Valley of Stucco and Sadness, CA
I’m considering selling a rifle I never shoot as well as the reloading supplies I have for it that are gathering dust on my bench for another shotgun. I enjoy shotgunning far more than rifle shooting, for some reason and I could see myself being a collector of sorts.

Currently, I have two nostalgia guns I brought with me on our cross country move (an old single shot braztech.410 and an early 90s era 870 express in 20 ga). Last summer I bought a new model Wingmaster, which in spite of the bad rep Remington has gained in recent years, is a really nice gun and hasn’t struck me as all that different from my dad’s 70s era Wingmaster.

I do have a short, HD barrel for the Wingmaster, but I like the idea of just keeping it in sporting configuration, Plugged as required state F&G regs, ready to go for informal clay shooting and hopefully bird hunting.

My next shotgun will be more utilitarian. A reliable, durable, short barreled defense and possible brush big game gun meant exclusively for hurling slugs and buckshot.

Few bad things have been written about the 590A1, but the safety position concerns me. The 870 has been my most commonly used firearm for 25+ years. I’m wondering if I’ll run into muscle memory issues due to the diffence in safety position between the 870 and 590.

Anyone here own and regularly use both? If so, do you run into problems switching between the two?
 
I have primarily used pump guns for years. To my best recollection, I have never pulled back on the forearm or missed the safety on any other platform. I shoot all types too.
I just dont think it works that way.
 
I know Mossberg has a strong following and a well built gun, but I have repaired many of those Mossberg tang safeties because the linkage came undone. The 870 safety is pretty simple and hard to break, that being said I like the safety in front of the trigger rather than behind a trigger, which was one of the reasons I chose a Beretta 391 over a Remington 1100.

However I have 2 870's and they are excellent guns.
 
The safety location on the 870 has never been a problem for me.

While bird hunting I’d rest the middle knuckle of my index on the safety with my finger curved outward away from the trigger. When a bird jumped, I could click the safety off and get my finger inside the trigger guard in one motion.

I could look for a second wing master or a police model 870 and set one up as my bird gun and the other as my “ground blaster” for lack of a better term.
 
You can’t go wrong with an 870 or a 500/590 for defensive use. Not too expensive to buy and tons of options like extra capacity magazine extensions, barrel lengths, sighting styles and pistol grip or AR style stocks, etc. Both are pump guns with the loading port and ejection port in the same locations on both guns, so general operation is very consistent for these two guns.

That being said, if you’re used to the 870, you may just want to stay with the 870. This is especially true If it is to be a defensive gun, as a single manual of arms can be easier to recall under stress

I don’t have a Mossberg, but I do have 870s, BPSes and a Model 12. I’ll admit that if I was trying to rapidly operate these guns remembering what safety is where, which action release button is where...plus the fact that BPS has a single loading and ejection port while the trigger disconnect isn’t there on the model 12...on all three can sometimes get a tad confusing.

Whatever route you take, good luck and stay safe!
 
I only use shotguns for hunting. I have a Mossberg 930 (auto, tang safety) I use for everything with feathers, and a Remington 870 (pump, safety on the trigger guard) for slugs and buck for everything with hooves. Never had problems.
 
As a young cop all those years ago (started work in 1974...) I had a choice of standard riot guns each shift (a mix of Remingtons and Mossbergs - all pretty beaten up but utterly reliable...) but I always chose the 870's specifically because of the safety differences between the two. I was always worried that with the Mossberg I might inadvertently clear the safety under heavy stress and physical exertion... Only in police work do you have to run for a few blocks before actually being able to confront the armed guy you're in a foot chase with.... That sort of stuff makes muscle memory very important in my opinion...

The biggest difference between the way I used a shotgun on the street and what a hunter does is that once my weapon was racked and ready - my finger was never on the trigger - always on the safety instead... I only cleared the safety on the street on one occasion and moments later my target was down for the count... The safety on the Remington was right next to the trigger... on the Mossberg it's thumb operated and on the tang...

I lost count of how many times I pointed my shotgun at someone (or more than one "someone") perfectly safely since the safety was still on and my finger was no where near the trigger until it was time for business... I just never had the confidence in the Mossbergs...

Whatever you choose make a point of practicing with it and try to make sure you only reach for that one weapon when defensive needs arise... In police work you might go weeks or even months - and never once reach for your shotgun - or it might be the other way around entirely. In every case the penalties for an accidental discharge or a wrongful shooting are just too heavy to even think about... That applies to an armed citizen as well.
 
For quite a few years I used my 870 for everything from ducks to deer. A couple years ago I got a great deal on a BPS 28 gauge. I take it pheasant hunting once on a while and have had a lot of trouble thumbing the safety off when a bird flushes. Never have a problem when I use my Red Label but with a pump gun in hand my brain and finger are convinced the safety is on the trigger guard. If I were to get a shotgun for defensive purposes, the safety would be on the guard.
 
Deltaboy1984 said:
Safety location!
Click to expand...
This. I have to mentally remind myself, "Mossberg!" occasionally when shooting them. I don't own any because I grew up shooting Remington rifles and shotguns. First rifle: Remington 572. First deer rifle; Remington 742 Carbine. First 'real' shotgun; Remington 1100. Current shotgun; Remington 870. (and an Ithaca 37, which has the safety in the same place.)

Like Birdhunter1, I have replaced safeties on tons of Mossbergs. The only safety work I've done on 870's is putting a left hand kit in.
 
If you have to shoot under stress it could be an issue. For casual target practice and even most hunting not so much. Mossberg is a good enough gun, especially the 590 which corrects some shortcomings of the 500. But the safety location is the biggest drawback of the Mossberg design. It is in a bad place where it can easily be damaged or unintentionally disengaged and is equally difficult for both right and left handed shooters.
 
for Jason... In my era, there were no “police” model Remington 870’s -they were all Wingmasters in basic riot configuration (18-20” barrel, four round tube, bead sight). I now own an Express... It’s the same item only a lot newer -and without that nice blued finish that the Wingmaster came with...

That Express is in a lot better condition than all those beaten up Wingmasters I was issued and carried- all those years ago... I have complete confidence in that Express model. It’s the same brutally effective weapon that I’ve counted on for years...
 
I shoot lefty and vastly prefer both the safety location and more importantly the MUCH better bolt release of the Mossberg. I can't for the life of me discern why the Remington's is so ridiculously far forward. I have gotten rid of all my 870s because it bothers me so much. YMMV.

I also like how there's no elevator in the way when loading the Mossberg. And they're easier to work on/repair if necessary.
 
lemaymiami said:
for Jason... In my era, there were no “police” model Remington 870’s -they were all Wingmasters in basic riot configuration (18-20” barrel, four round tube, bead sight). I now own an Express... It’s the same item only a lot newer -and without that nice blued finish that the Wingmaster came with...

That Express is in a lot better condition than all those beaten up Wingmasters I was issued and carried- all those years ago... I have complete confidence in that Express model. It’s the same brutally effective weapon that I’ve counted on for years...
Click to expand...
I also have an Express model, no problems. Plenty good for a bang around field/HD gun.
 
Any muscle memory issues switching between an 870 and a 500/590?

This question comes up from time to time. Back in the day when I was on active duty, we had a mix of Remington 870s and Mossberg 500s. Many of us preferred the Mossberg because its action-bar release is at the back of the trigger guard for much easier access, and the safety works better for left-handers.

jmr40 said:
But the safety location is the biggest drawback of the Mossberg design. It is in a bad place where it can easily be damaged or unintentionally disengaged and is equally difficult for both right and left handed shooters.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Our duty shotgun is the 590A1, and I've never seen a safety become unintentionally disengaged (and I'm a firearms instructor, so I spend a lot of time with this weapon). Damaged? Could happen, but not easily -- you'd really have to whack it hard on a harder surface or object.

When we switched from the 870, most of our folks liked the Mossbergs better and found the controls more practical. Now, as far as durability, I've seen some issues with some of recent production guns, but all were easily fixed.

It's just all about being aware of which platform you have in hand if you need it for serious use. I don't subscribe to the concept of "muscle memory," simply practice, practice, practice, and knowing what you're using …
 
Old Dog said:
Damaged? Could happen, but not easily -- you'd really have to whack it hard on a harder surface or object.
Click to expand...
I made quite a bit of $$ replacing broken plastic tang safeties on Mossbergs over the years. I always recommend one of the steel or aluminum aftermarket ones offered, and the smarter ones took me up on that.

Old Dog said:
I don't subscribe to the concept of "muscle memory," simply practice, practice, practice, and knowing what you're using …
Click to expand...

It's not the best term for the ability to perform an act unconsciously due to repetitive training, but it's one most understand, even if it is a misnomer.
 
You either know what you have in your hands or do not.I switch between different types of shotguns and rifles and never have a problem.
I don't even remember cocking the TC Contender when I had to make a quick shot on the buck in my avatar.
Hunted the following year w a Ruger #1, popped a buck and reloaded without taking my eyes off him. Hadn't hunted w a #1 for 20 years.
OU, pump, auto, different safety locations...........no probs.

I get how stress might make folks do some stuff.
Just think if one is more aware that this fear is unjustified.
If that easily befuddled, there are going to be way more problems in such events.
 
I detest the Mossberg rattle and thick wrist.
Top safety kinda sucks if you scope one (the old smoothbores were decent deer rigs back in the day).
If one has lefties using the shotgun, ambi safety makes sense.
Outside of that, M500 or similar is best used as a canoe paddle.
BTW, took my first gun deer w a 500 regal.
Let somebody borrow it and they got their first deer with it.....so gave them the gun.
 
I have both configurations...an 1100 and an 870 that are in wingshooting configuration, and a couple of 500s that are configured for defense with buck and slug. Sights are different; beads for the bird guns and RDS for the defense guns. Slings on the 500s only.

I use them all regularly. I can't remember a single time when I've tried to switch off a tang safety on an 870. Or reach for the slide release at the front of the trigger guard on a 500.

There are subtle differences in how I operate them, though. My dominant hand thumb stays by the safety when using the 500s; when using the 1100/870s it slides down the stock a little more. I index my trigger finger on the safety on the 1100/870; on the 500s its straight against the action. Everything else remains pretty much the same.

YMMV, but I've never had a problem switching between styles of pump guns.

OP, you didn't mention this, but switching between an autoloader and a pump HAS been a bit of a challenge for me, but that issue should probably wait for another thread.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Any real differences between a Mossberg 590 and 590A1
Replies
15
Views
14K
Scottso
S
P
  • Locked
Need help with my Mossy 590
Replies
4
Views
1K
OrvilleYertleson
O
DustyGmt
  • Locked
Mossberg 590
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
Beacon
B
A
  • Locked
Sold 590, bought Stoeger, still shooting 870...
Replies
2
Views
470
AnthonyRSS
A
J
  • Locked
Can't decide: Remington 870 Police Magnum, Wingmaster, or Mossy 590A1
2
Replies
38
Views
3K
MCgunner
M
Back
Top