Any reason not to get a Remington Express 870 HD?

[hmp32]

Any reason not to get a Remington Express 870 HD?

I need a defense shotgun (I don't have one) and would like advice on what to buy.
Seems like the Remington 870 HD for $299 is the best value for home defense.

And I'd rather have a pump, rather than a semi-auto... fewer things to go wrong is my thinking on that.

But, I am open to other suggestions...

I have shot 12gauges in the past and know how to avoid hurting my shoulder.

Thanks!

 

[SASS#23149]

for starters,I"ve never ever read anything bad about 870's.Not here anyway.
They are a very good shotgun,and if you do your part and practice with it and get to really know it,it'll serve you well.
if it's your first shotgun I'd advise starting out with game loads and then work up to buckshot if you really feel it's good for hd.I load mine with no.6's just to keep the recoil down .I have no doubt they will do the job.imo of course

 

[Zoogster]

Isn't that part of the Express line? The express was made to lower standard of quality and mass produced for Walmart before being carried by others as well. Things a little less fitted, less smooth action, probably less durable. But perhaps I am picky. The 870 is steel which beats aluminum in my book, and the 870 design seems rugged and reliable. I guess it depends what you want a shotgun for? For just home defense it still will put lead on target in a good 870 way. However the wingmaster, police, and marine versions all make you wonder how the Express is even the same gun.

 

[hmp32]

Okay, so I don't want the Express version....

That clarifies something someone said. So, the Police or Marine version is what I want if I get an 870 for home defense?

 

[Zoogster]

If you want something smoother working, and held to a higher standard yeah. The 870 HD is still reliable if you want to save some money.

Sometimes it is just little things, like the dimples in the express that require some easy dremel tool work to remove to extend the magazine. Or the action bars seeming a little more wobbly and less precise. Lots of little things to tweak or improve to essentialy get it how those I mentioned are standard. The Police model is very modulated, allowing easy vast mods and accessories while being durable. The Marine is durable and won't rust and already has a mag extension (least maintenance for long term storage/home defense imho.) The Wingmaster enjoys the classic colors and look while being geared to the sportsman that enjoys the woodwork and quality of the design in its original form. All 3 are very similar. The Express is for the low market that needs to have thier mods limited by design and will tolerate less quality to save a some money.

 

[hmp32]

Oh, the Express I am looking at already is similar to the Tactical, but no pistol grip and the standard synthetic pump handle. At the shop, it is called an 870 HD which I thought was part of the express. It is $299. The Tactical is $359. So, I am confused =(

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/tactical_shotguns.asp

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah I don't know much about the tactical. The pistol grip to me makes it less ideal for me because the profile is not as slim. It looks just like the Marine though without nickel plating and with a tactical stock. They all have pros and cons. Like the police has a metal trigger group that I just think is better and , but the marine has a nice finish and more stock mods, but doesn't take to additional mods as well. The tactical seems a compromise between the two but is still an express, i don't know everything exactly that makes express versions cheaper to mass produce, but they definately have the feel of a toy with loose tolerances compared to the others. I imagine looking up the parts and doing research will reveal all the differences if you analyze them part by part on diagrams. The Express felt like something you could snap in half or damage by twisting if you tried. Like a mossy or something

 

[Steve C]

Isn't that part of the Express line? The express was made to lower standard of quality and mass produced for Walmart before being carried by others as well. Things a little less fitted, less smooth action, probably less durable. But perhaps I am picky.

I've owned 4 870's in my life, still have 2 of them, one with a 28" mod vent rib barrel for hunting and one with mag extension and 20" riot barrel for HD. I've examined several of the Express guns and shot one a friend owned and I wouldn't say the basic Express gun is of any less quality in function or utiity than my 870's that are from the 60's and 70's. For sending lead down range on target they're pretty much the same.

Remington was competing with Mosberg for an economy shotgun. What they did was reduce cost by not polishing the metal to a bright finish, just bead blast so the express has a flat type blueing and they went to a birch stock with oil finish rather than the press checkered walnut with clear polyurathane finish on the stock.

If the differnce in apearance is worth the difference in price then by all means get the standard model 870. But if you want a good utility gun then the Express is certainly a good one to buy.

Besides the Marlin there are still Winchester Defenders being sold new. There are even inexpensive Chinese copies of US shotguns that would do the job if your budget is tight. Any of these shotguns will fill the requirements for a home defense shotgun.

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah I didn't mean to imply they won't get the job done. The 870 design is great. Any small differences in variations don't take away the superior design and its funtionality. Police departments have ones from way back that look like an old beat up oar still going strong with minimal maintenance.

The Express does seem to squeek and creak more and have looser ( and thus less smooth) action bars though. Something is definately different.

 

[IDriveB5]

hmp-
The express is a very good gun and it is NOT made to a lesser quality than the wingmaster. The difference is in the fit and finish.
that being said, I own an express super magnum and a wingmaster classic trap. both go bang every single time. I have 1-2k more rounds through the express than the CT, and the express is smoother due to the higher round count.

When it comes right down to it, your ability to use the weapon is far and beyond the most important factor.

 

[Devonai]

I will simply add that you shouldn't overlook a used Wingmaster. The only caveat is that those with serial numbers ending with "V" aren't supposed to be used with 3" shells. YMMV, but I never had a problem with any load in my Wingmaster.

 

[streakr]

No reason in the world NOT to get that Remington! Best pump shotguns made with millions of happy and repeat customers.

When in doubt, use 2 3/4" shells. Avoid the pistol grip; they may look cool but are hard to handle with heavy loads.

streakr

 

[gaweidert]

I have two 870's. One is an older one with a nice stock and the 20" barrel. I got it for home defense. But I also wanted to get a longer barrel to use it when shooting clays with my sons. I wan in a Wal-mart one day and saw an 870 with a 28" barrel on sale for only a few bucks more than a barrel alone so I got it. I used it for sporting clays a lot and really like it. Not a big fan of pistol grips. Look cool, but harder on the wrists when shooting.

An 870 or 500 or Maverick will all do fine, buth waht you need to do the most is practice using it. I started taking mine to the sporting clays range for this reason. Now I prefer it although I don't know if a pump is fast enough to use for sheet shooting doubles. I should try it sometime. Haven't shot skeet in over a year.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you know the gun (or have a friend/relative who does, or a trusted dealer) there's no need to buy new. There are lots of good used 870s available- older Expresses, Wingmasters, Police trade-ins- that cost less than a new gun and are every bit as serviceable. And there are plenty of 18" bead sighted or 20" smoothbore rifle sighted barrels available either new or used as well- just be sure to match up your barrel to the type of magazine cap retaining system your particular gun has. There are two types- the older one uses a spring-loaded detent set into the barrel ring, the newer one used on newer Express guns uses teeth on the plastic magazine spring detent to engage teeth inside the magazine cap.

If you don't feel comfortable with all that there's no reason not to buy a new one of course. My advice is to buy the model with the factory magazine extension already installed and save yourself trouble, you can buy a magazine cap cheaper than a Remington factory extension if you want to change the gun back to its original 4-shot magazine later. Just be sure to get the 'old' type magazine cap.

Edited to add: I'd not worry overmuch about buying a new Express gun if money is tight if I were you. I prefer older Expresses to newer ones myself, but if you are uncomfortable shopping for a used gun then there's nothing to worry about with a new Express, now that Remington finally did away with the J-lock safety. My primary 870 here is an Express that I bought used, it was plenty good enough a shotgun for the original owner who had bought it new. He was a member of that particular Army special operations unit whose name I am not supposed to utter and could have bought any shotgun he wanted for a house gun. I bought it from him after he was hurt and had to shift to shooting a semiauto due to permanent injury to his left arm. You could do a whole lot worse than buying a new 870HD...

Happy shopping,

lpl.nc

 

[1911JMB]

I have found 870's to be somewhat more pickey about ejection than mossbergs. My friends mossbergs eject the empties without fail, but my 870 got out of tune once and needed to be taken to the gunsmith to get the leaf springs tuned up and replaced. (These days I might have done it myself). Also, I get stovepipes every now and again if I don't vigorusly pump the thing.

The bottom line is that with 870's is rack it extra hard if its important that the shell gets ejected.

 

[Geno]

870 is Excellent

Myself, I have a difficult time determining if I should select an 870 or a Ruger O/U. I guess that's why I haven't bought either one yet. I have in the past had an 870. It was excellent. I would like the Wingmaster if I get the 870. I may just have to buy both, right?

Doc2005

 

[Stan_TheGunNut]

The differences in the Express HD and the Police model are primarily cosmetic. Check out the following thread:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=90511&highlight=870+express++870

Here in a nutshell is what Remington says the differences are. Pretty minor if you ask me. And you can always modify your express by adding stronger springs or having it parkerized if you want. To me, the differences are negligable and don't justify the increase in price. I think the companies just add "Police" or "Tactical" to many of their products to get people to pay more. Just my $0.03, adjusted for inflation.

Here's what Remington says about the difference between the Express and the Police guns from the thread linked above:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

 

[Speer]

I've got an Express. Shot the hell out of it, and it hasn't so much as coughed. Definitely money well spent.

 

[blood_donor]

+1 on express

I have a Remington 870 HD model. 18" smooth bore, bead sight, polymer stock, receiver and barrel both say "magnum" on them.

After a few years of occasional shooting, the action is very smooth. I have carefully polished the sear surfaces to give it a cleaner trigger break.

I have also installed Scattergun Technologies' ghost ring sights and a 2 shell magazine extension from Choate.

My 870 HD is not pretty, but it is smooth and reliable. It is a bit on the heavy side, too, which is one advantage of the Mossberg design... until you pull the trigger!

 

[hmp32]

Well, I just bought a Remington 870 Express HD. The final selling point for me was that it did NOT have the integrated security device. Instead, it came with a seperate locking device.

Apparently, it is not a mistake either. There was a photocopy insert refering me to the manual for the integrated devcice and the instructions with the external device.

Anyway, its done and I am happy. We will see how I do with it in FAS Defensive Shotgun and later LFII in the summar.

Thanks all!

 

[IDriveB5]

Congratulations on the 870! I had both of mine out at the range today. Read the 101 thread on how to break-in a shotgun, and how to clean all the factory lube out and relube.
Once you do that, go *try* to wear it out.