Anybody using WSF in a 357 Magnum?

[Down South]

Hi Folks, I was wondering if any of you have tried WSF in your 357 mags. Neither Hodgdon nor anyone else publishes data for the .357 cartridge using WSF. I have some Speer data for the 38 special using WSF and that’s it. I have been slowly working up a load in the 357 with WSF using a 158 Grain RF cast boolit. WSF appears to be a good powder for up to full house loads.
Currently I’m loading the 158 gr on top of 7.9-8.0 gr of WSF with an average muzzle velocity of 1325 fps. WSF is a fairly new powder. Have any of you reloaders experimented with this powder in the 357 magnum?
My 357 mag is a Ruger GP 100 6" Stainless.

Another question and I’m sure that that there will be a lot of different answers. What powders are working best for you in the 357 magnum using cast boolits?

I’ve gotten away from jacketed bullets due to their cost and started casting my own. I’m using WW with about 2% tin added. I’m water dropping my boolits and my alloy is running about 22 BHN.

 

[Crazy4nitro]

I ran some "test" loads the other day in .38 spcl. I would be interested in what data you have for .38 and WSF. I really like WSF,it burns clean IMO and meters Great.
I shot 10gr under a 215LSWC in my .41 and it felt like a Good middle of the road load. *feel means absolutely nothing* but no signs of pressure.

'Nitro

 

[jfh]

I'm working with WSF in both 38 and 357 loads.

The new Speer 14 has some 38 data for WSF, but none for 357. In 38 Special, the max is 4.3 gr. under their (swaged) 158LSWC-HP to stay under SAMMI standards, or 17000 PSI.

While I have not yet worked at the performance levels you are working in, my gut reaction is that you may well be up there in pressure--way up there--with 7.9-8.0 gr under a 158, even in a 357 case. If your primers are heading into cratering, even without blow-by or piercing, then you are probably overpressure already. These primers are what 55K to 72K look like; these results are from an AA#7 overcharge.

Although WSF has different charge weights that SR-4756, it "feels" a lot like SR-4756--a soft start and a hard finish to its recoil in my revolvers (j-frames)--and WSF is close to SR-4756 on burn rate charts. If you have followed the (in)famous threads about SR-4756 and the Speer #8 loads, then you will know that the famous 8.0-gr. load of SR-4756 in a 38 Special Case under a 158LSWC-HP seated for long LOA may well generate pressure well into the 40s, arguably much higher.

I'll be returning to my WSF testing shortly--but my goal is to build 158-gr. loads that run about 900 fps from a 2" barrel. I think WSF may not be needed with longer barrels to achieve your velocities--but the bottom line is, we really don't know yet.

Jim H.

 

[Down South]

Jfh, My primers still are in good condition. I’m not seeing any signs of high pressure. I’m getting very little leading too. I ran about 50 round yesterday with no problems. I then cleaned the revolver and ran some Rem 125 Gr Jacketed HP (Store Bought). The recoil was definitely heavier. I didn't crono the factory stuff yesterday but I did a few days ago. It was running +1500fps. I’ve carefully looked at every primer that I’ve shot with this load and from what I see I may be able to go with even a higher charge rate but I won't. The primers pics that you linked to were shot under too high of pressure. I’m including a pic of the primers of three different types of brass that I shot yesterday under this load.
The 357 mag cases don't seem to build as high pressure as the 38 special cases do.


Crazy, The load that JFH posted is the Speer Max for the 38 Special. I too have been testing 38 special loads with the 38 since I have a 642. I load 4.0 gr of WSF under a 158 cast boolit and it does well .It is very accurate in my little revolver. No indications of high pressure. But remember, I am shooting cast. Cast doesn't build quite as high of pressure as the same weight jacketed bullet plus cast will generate a little higher veloscity.

 

[jfh]

Thanks for posting the pics of your primers, DownSouth. You're right--they show less pressure than mine--as well they should: Instead of 8.2 gr. of #7 in a 38 Special case, I had about 17.5 to 18 gr.

So, we're gathering a bit more data on WSF. This was the first powder I tried working up loads for--with some judicious thinking, I tried 7.4 gr. under a GDSB135JHP in a 357 case and found an average of about 1000 fps. Further testing showed that about 6.4 gr in a 38 Special case and 6.8 gr. in a 357 case gave the nominal 900 fps I was looking for (a replica in ballistics of the GDSB 135-gr 38+P factory load). A reloading contact at handloads.com worked up an estimated pressure of the 38 Special load at just over 20000 PSI. 5.8 gr. under a hard cast (BHN=ca. 21) 140LRNFP gives about 860, the bottom edge of the GDSB 135-gr. 38+P specs....

And that's about all the further I've gotten. I'm just completing testing True Blue to those parameters (and to 158-gr. loads running at 800 or 900 fps), and I'll be returning to WSF next week, I think.

I suspect Speer has done some 357 testing of WSF, and we should probably e-mail them to see if they will release the data.

 

[zxcvbob]

I experimented with it a while back, and found that WSF is almost interchangeable with Herco, except it meters better. I'll get back to it when I finish using up this pound of Blue Dot. I was impressed enough with WSF in heavy .45 Colt loads that I bought an 8# keg of it.

Use Herco starting data as a guide, work up slowly, and of course if you blow yourself up it's not my fault

 

[Down South]

One thing that I should have mentioned in my first post is the load data that I’ve posted should not be tried in your revolver. It was posted for exploratory reasons only. I believe that this load is at the top end of pressure range now for the revolver that I’m using it in. Your revolver may react completely different to this load. Please do not attempt to use this load.

 

[Down South]

except it meters better

That's one of the things that I like about WSF. It meters well. It also burns clean. I've got good loads for my 9mm's, 40's and 38 Special with it. I'm still having an accuracy problem with the 357 righ tnow. I'll be cutting back my charge weight till accuracy comes back. I've just got 500 new 357 Starline brass in today. I'll start testing with them in a day or two. I'll probably drop back down to around 7 gr and start testing again.

JFH, Thanks for that data you posted. That's the best and most that I've aquired form an outside source so far.

 

[jfh]

I originally worked with WSF in .45ACP, and then (mostly) 10mm; the latter cartridge responds well with it.

My initial explorations in the 38/357 round were to build "replica reloads" for SD practice in lightweights (I own an M&P340 and 442 for carry, and a 640 for load development).

Because my hand needed so much conditioning, I wanted a round that replicated the subjective 'feel' of the factory round--i.e., my carry round, the GDSB 38+P 135-gr. round. The Speer PDF files for reloading to that spec provided that; see other threads about using about 6.8 gr. of AA#5 in a 38 Special case under a 140LTC for that round.

But I had all this WSF on hand--and I was getting hooked on building a good database of short-barrel rounds--so it was time to try WSF.

Subjectively, the felt recoil of WSF and 4756 is much less for me, even now that my hand is fully conditioned. I think it's because of that "soft start" with a harder finish--at any rate, a higher-pressure load of WSF (the GDSB 135-gr. 357 PD round, which is nominally 970 fps from a 2" barrel) feels much 'softer' than the Speer recommended Power Pistol or V3N37 recipes.

Until I got hooked on finishing up the LD for True Blue, WSF was the one I was waiting to chrono after winter was over.

So, more info is coming shortly, I suspect; the TB LD is about done. (BTW, TB is a magnificient powder--1.0-gr. wide sweet spots in 38 Special, full-power 357 capability--and all with SDs as low as 4; typically, under 12. It seems to be position-insensitive no matter the charge weight, I think.)

Jim H.