Anyone used a scout scope to hunt with?

[gulogulo1970]

I just bought a Ruger Gunsite scout and I am wondering if anyone hunts with a scout scope? And if you did how did you do? I haven't bought a scope yet and can mount a scout scope or a normal scope in the more conventional location. I've never used a scout scope and want to give it a try, but not if it doesn't work very well.

 

[Malamute]

In detailed discussions about scout/practical modern field rifles, there don't seem to be very many fans of forward mounted scopes any more. Many used them in the past, found them lacking in a number of ways and felt that good quality standard type scopes were overall better tools. Some of the rational for the forward mount were stripper clip loading, and leaving a receiver sight mounted in case of a scope failure. Someone recently commented that it didn't make much sense to use an inferior scope type to make allowance for even more inferior sights. Scope failures with true good quality scopes seem less common today than 30 or so years ago when the forward scopes seemed like a grand idea. Cheap scopes? Well, cheap is cheap.

I never warmed up to the forward scope idea. Properly set up scopes for the individual using it should have the crosshairs magically appear on the target as the gun is thrown up to the shoulder. Running small game should be no problem with a low power scope when correctly set up. 1x or 2x on the low end makes that fairly simple. Making it a habit of not leaving the power turned up makes a huge difference. Some complain of the scope being at the wrong power for such things when opportunity arises. That's a software issue, not a scope issue.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The forward scope was supposed to be a fixed magnification 2-3 power to be used with both eyes open. Truthfully it limits your ability to take the longer shots afforded by a 3x9 in normal location.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I still want a scout rifle. Been a fan since I was young and first read up on the idea.

 

[gulogulo1970]

I was thinking of getting this: Vortex Optics Crossfire II 2-7x32 Riflescope Scout. It's gotten good reviews on Amazon and Optics Planet. I have researched the scopes but by no means have my mind made up. If I get a normal eye relief scope it will probably be the Leupold VX-II 3X9. I tend to research stuff to death before I pull the trigger on a purchase.

I don't hunt very often at all but have been invited to sit in a friends deer blind recently but never have taken him up on it. Mostly, I'm going to shoot paper up to 200 yards, maximum and hunt a bit. I just want something that works, is fun to shoot, and won't be difficult when I do occasionally hunt with it.

 

[cdb1]

My eyes don't do well with scout scope set-ups. To each his own but a Crossfire is about the last scout scope I would use. It takes some money to make a good scout scope because of the long eye relief required. I just don't think a Crossfire will cut it. If Vortex makes a scout scope in the Diamondback line that might work. At the lower end I'd look at Burris. YMMV.

 

[35 Whelen]

Most people who started out using rifles that are scoped in the traditional manner don't like Scout set ups because they simply don't understand them or know how to use them. Read up on the Scout concept and one can see that Scout rifles aren't meant to replace standard hunting rifles. They're utility rifles intended not to be perfect at any one task, but capable of performing most any task.

Since building my Scout rifle back in the '90's, I've probably killed more deer and hogs with it than all my other bolt rifles combined. Even with the 2 1/2x scope, it's capable of very good accuracy:



I found it an excellent tool for teaching new shooters to use a scope and started my oldest daughter out on it. My wife liked mine so much I built one for her.

This 12 point buck was shot with my Scout rifle at a dead run from a range of about 80 yds. The ensuing "death cartwheel" broke the entire left antler off!:















My oldest daughter used the rifle to great effect:







35W

 

[eastbank]

they work for some, but not for me. just to be fair and balanced. eastbank.

 

[jmr40]

I've tried them. They CAN work, but there are more negatives than positives. There are 2 alleged advantages. The primary reason Cooper wanted one on his rifles was to be able to use clips to reload the surplus military rifles that he converted to "scout" rifles. With a detachable box magazine that advantage is off the table.

The other alleged advantage is to be able to keep both eyes open when using the optic. If you're closing one eye to use a conventionally mounted scope you're doing it wrong. If you want to pick up targets quickly and shoot fast nothing has proven faster than a 1-4X conventional scope set on 1X. The same scope set on 4X has enough magnification to hit deer size targets out to at least 400 yards. Conventionally mounted scopes work MUCH better in low light situations. Scout scopes can be all but impossible to see through with a low sun from behind and they really screw up the balance.

 

[chicharrones]

I just bought a Ruger Gunsite scout and I am wondering if anyone hunts with a scout scope? And if you did how did you do? I haven't bought a scope yet and can mount a scout scope or a normal scope in the more conventional location. I've never used a scout scope and want to give it a try, but not if it doesn't work very well.

If you go the scout scope route, get a scope with decent glass with good coatings.

Cheap scout scopes with inexpensive glass and coatings reflect too much light back into the eye. Either from a light source behind you or with light reflecting off your cheek. So, get good glass and wear a hat.

For me, the downside to a variable power scout scope is mostly the weight that is now out on the barrel. A small fixed power scout scope in lightweight rings doesn't affect rifle balance too badly. But a heavier variable power is much more noticeable and is usually longer, too. Personally I like variable power scopes on the receiver, as the balance is better and the field of view is better.

The good thing is that you have a Ruger GSR and can mount a scope however you want. If you have good eyes, you might just like it using only the factory sights. It sure is quicker handling with no scope on it.

I'm no hunter, but I have gone back and forth on the scout rifle concept in the last few years.

To be honest, here's how the scout scope fits with me. In my mind, it is a middle aged man's iron sights. I grew up preferring peep sights, but as my eyes aged a scout scope replaces those sights nicely. Especially with a low power scope of 2x or so as anything higher gives much too small of a field of view. If you have a scout scope with small turrets, the reticle appears to be suspended in a disc of light on top of the barrel. It blocks very little forward view, and with the adjustable reticle focus, I feel like my eyes are young again. (Note: the fixed power Leopold does not have a reticle focus.)

Yes, I read lots of Jeff Cooper writings as a young adult and even romanticized about my use of a scout scope, but the reality is what I wrote above. I'm just a middle aged man that can't use iron sights well anymore and the scout scope let's me use a rifle as close to using iron sights as possible.

The options are red dots, which don't have adjustable reticle on low mount dots because they aren't prismatic. And there are low power receiver mounted scopes which are fantastic for adding more magnification without compromising field of view through the tube. A 1-4x20 on a Ruger GSR is a great compromise between a low power scout scope and a heavier variable mounted on the receiver.

Oh well, enough rambling for this morning.

 

[stoky]

Scout scopes are optimized for quickness and good field of view perception out to 300yds. They give up some precision for longer shots (the wisdom of which is debatable).
One advantage is they give better access to the receiver, which important once in awhile.
They suck with the sun at your back if your hat ain't right.

 

[Malamute]

Some of the people commenting about not caring for forward mounted scopes are not unfamiliar with them, they just realized the limitations were more than they were willing to live with for a true general purpose practical rifle. One guy had been through several Gunsite rifle courses early on when Copper was at the wheel.

...which comes back to the "scout" vs "practical" rifle. A scout was an answer to the question of a general purpose rifle at the time. Some things have changed since then, like better variable scopes, and some people realized they didn't use the forward scopes as well as the standard mounted one for all around use. One can stick with the "scout" concept, but in its true form, its a concept of a practical all around rifle. Most students of shooting are willing to use what works best and experiment to see whats possible, rather than staying with a concept that stopped evolving 25 or more years ago. If youre into it for retro, cool, if youre into it because its the best example of the practical rifle concept, perhaps not so much. Same aspects, like stripper clip loading may be of importance to some, but to most, its not. Once some of those type considerations are left out, some of the rational starts fading.

Another thought, a forward scope does not make a "scout", nor does a scout have to have a forward scope, or any scope, if it meets the general criteria for practical rifle set out in the groups conferences (it was a group project, not just Coopers idea).

I recall Cooper mentioning in his writings of people asking what to do if they couldn't afford a true scout which was a custom undertaking at the time. His reply was the get a Ruger 77 lightweight in 308, put a good quality fixed 4x scope on it, and shoot it a lot. The fixed power was part of his reluctance in using variable scopes, which have improved in the intervening years.

 

[stoky]

The thing about a fixed 4x is the ability to get on target quickly, being able to leave the other eye open for wide field of view awareness, not getting "lost in the scope" or having knobs that need fiddling with. Just having the aiming reference point in the same focal plane as the target is a huge advantage, magnification not withstanding.

 

[35 Whelen]

The only negative I've found to the Scout mount is what has mentioned, sun glare. But in the countless hours afield with this rifle that has happened to me exactly once and it's unlikely it will happen again.
As far as the forward scope throwing the rifle out of balance, nothing could be further from the truth, at least with my rifle. Mine balances very well and in fact I carry it with my hand wrapped around the receiver, the same way I carry '73 and '92 lever actions.
One of the things that I find very attractive are the backup sights. If one hunts enough under realistic hunting conditions (NOT driving an ATV to a deer stand or hunting primarily from a vehicle) their optics are subject to damage. It's happened to me four times, three of those were due to temperamental horses, and the other was my fault, carelessly walking the side of a snow covered mountain. With the pre-zeroed back up sights it's simply a matter of removing the scope.

So to get back to the original question "Anyone used a scout scope to hunt with?" Yes I have and yes they work.

35W

 

[chicharrones]

I gotta admit, I like your rifle set up when it comes to scout type rifles, Whelen.

If there was an easy and cheap way to convert my GSR to an internal mag with hinged footplate, I would. And I'd sell my extra GSR mags on ebay.

I just think that type of magazine makes a whole lot more sense with a scout type rifle. Not talking stripper clips here either, just a top loading magazine.

 

[eastbank]

if you like the scout set up all well and good, but you can have a rear mounted scope and still have the open sights for back up(its no harder to remove a rear mounted scope than a scout mount) and if you get caught in a rain-snow storm it may cause problems with rain-snow on the lense being farther from the eye. and i find the rear mounted scope more forgiving when having to mount the gun and shoot fast as the scope is close to the eye, if you have any cant or cheek not posioned right the scout mount may cause you to hunt to get a full field of view. i would like to see a test with rear verse scout with the same rifle and same scope powers, 2x-3x-1x4. if you put a higher power scope on the rear and a lower power on the scout i agree the scout will be faster to get on target. i my self like a 2.5x- 3x-1x4-2x7-2.5x8 leupold scopes for 90 percent of my hunting rifles. it comes down to your need and want, plus what works best for you. and maybe it should not be one or the other, but maybe both for different hunting- shooting. eastbank.

 

[cdb1]

I've actually shot a Ruger Gunsite Scout with a scout scope set up on a number of occasions because I have two friends that own them. I have nothing against the set up but for the type of hunting I do, a classic set up works better for me. I just see better that way. I also believe if money is an issue a decent regular scope costs less than a decent scout scope.

 

[35 Whelen]

I gotta admit, I like your rifle set up when it comes to scout type rifles, Whelen.

If there was an easy and cheap way to convert my GSR to an internal mag with hinged footplate, I would. And I'd sell my extra GSR mags on ebay.

I just think that type of magazine makes a whole lot more sense with a scout type rifle. Not talking stripper clips here either, just a top loading magazine.

Thanks. I'm not against removable magazines, but then again, they're one more thing to lose or get damaged. Will a standard Ruger 77 floorplate and magazine not bolt up to the GSR action?

if you like the scout set up all well and good, but you can have a rear mounted scope and still have the open sights for back up(its no harder to remove a rear mounted scope than a scout mount) and if you get caught in a rain-snow storm it may cause problems with rain-snow on the lense being farther from the eye. and i find the rear mounted scope more forgiving when having to mount the gun and shoot fast as the scope is close to the eye, if you have any cant or cheek not posioned right the scout mount may cause you to hunt to get a full field of view. i would like to see a test with rear verse scout with the same rifle and same scope powers, 2x-3x-1x4. if you put a higher power scope on the rear and a lower power on the scout i agree the scout will be faster to get on target. i my self like a 2.5x- 3x-1x4-2x7-2.5x8 leupold scopes for 90 percent of my hunting rifles. it comes down to your need and want, plus what works best for you. and maybe it should not be one or the other, but maybe both for different hunting- shooting. eastbank.

I still don't think you're grasping the concept. A Scout rifle is not a dedicated hunting rifle, it's a utility rifle, but you keep comparing them to hunting rifles with traditionally mounted scopes. The Scout rifle wasn't designed to be ideal for hunting. Think of it as the bolt action counterpart to a '94 Winchester 30-30. There lots of rifles that are better suited for hunting, but people have been taking to the woods with these old lever actions for over 100 years, not because they're the best, but because they like them, they're handy, they're rugged and because they work for them. And so it is for me; I use a Scout rifle because I like it and because it has worked, in spades, for me. When I'm watching a wheat field or sitting in a stand during deer season, I typically (but not always) carry an old Ruger 77 .280 with a 3-9X Burris and when I built my dedicated elk hunting rifle I fitted a front sight and mounted a receiver sight to the action and "pre" zeroed it. But neither of those rifles are utility rifles.

Again, the OP's question was simply Anyone used a scout scope to hunt with?, not Tell me what's wrong with using a Scout scope for hunting.

35W

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive used a scout scope a few times, and for what i do i find them less effective than a standard scope.

But, the basic concept is sound. When shooting MULTIPLE, moving targets, the less crap you have obscuring your peripheral vision (say an occular bell right in your face), the faster you can transition. As hunters we rarely try and engage more than one target at a time, but the scout rifle was also ment for possible combat use, where being able to see more of whats going on around you can really mater.

Ive done control shoots where the order of the day was shoot till theres nothing left to shoot at. I did one with a buddies m1a scout, with a forward scope. At short range that set up was exceptional for transitioning between running animals. When longer shots on standing targets presented the selves it worked well also. Where i actually had the most issues was on quick shots on unmoving targets. The front heavy scout tended to swing thru targets.

 

[chicharrones]

Thanks. I'm not against removable magazines, but then again, they're one more thing to lose or get damaged. Will a standard Ruger 77 floorplate and magazine not bolt up to the GSR action?

Unfortunately, no. The receiver in the GSR is made slightly different and the stock would have to be replaced.

I'm okay with the detachable mag, but there are times where I think I'd prefer the 77 magazine. I'm not about to do anything about it at this point and time, though.

 

[DAP90]

I have a Ruger GSR in .308. I have a Leupold FXII 2.5x28 scout scope for it and a Leupold VX2 2-7x32 mounted traditionally using the XS rail with built in ghost ring rear sight. I took it deer hunting last year when I had the scout mounted, but didn’t get a deer.

I struggled to get used to the forward mount. Maybe with time I could get used to it, but with the XS rail I don’t have too. I can have a traditional mounted scope and keep my irons. The traditional mount feels more natural to me, so I have more confidence in it.

If you really want to try a scout scope, PM me and I’ll make you a deal.

 

[olafhardtB]

I started buying Bushnell 2x pistol scopes used at gun shows for cheap when the transistion to varibles began. I also bought some BSA 2X pistol scopes and one Leupold. The Leupold was terrible, the BSA's OK and the Bushnells were excellent. I mounted them on bolt action 22's and 30-30's, lever action 30-30's and break action shotguns and shot them. They are all in a drawer now. I liked the idea but did not much care for the reality but I think I gave it a good try.