AR accuracy
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Kame B.
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Does $750 include glass, mount, bipod, any shipping charges, any sales tax or transfer fees?
10 shot groups on demand or 3 shot groups on a good day?
Before you answer I've seen your videos
Well, just like any rifle I have ever bought, optics are not included. But the bi-pod and mount was 80 bucks recoil pad and NcStar cheek riser was 30 bucks. But my gunsmith ordered the barrel from Midway for $239.00 and installed it for 90 dollars, total was $329.00 and the mini I found used at a pawn shop for 400 bucks. So with the barrel conversion, glass ($225.00 Nikon), bi-pod and stock accessories equals out to $1064. But the glass and bi-pod were items that were taken from another one of my rifles I don't shoot very much. So my mini only cost me $759.00 "And it shoots like a champ all day" Thank you for viewing my videos.
That's extravagant! So far I have €302.60 in my (2MOA / S&B bulk ammo, but I'm far from done with it) Mini 30. €300 for the rifle including a Hakko scope and magazines, €1.60 for emery paper I used to level and true the gas block and €1.00 worth of linotype for lapping the barrel. I'm about to splurge €16.99 for the cheapest leather sling I've found which brings me all the way up to equivalent of $348.62 using today's exchange rate.
That saves a bunch of money I can spend on my AR:s in an eternal search for accuracy sufficient to shoot wings off a fly from a distance of a mile...
That saves a bunch of money I can spend on my AR:s in an eternal search for accuracy sufficient to shoot wings off a fly from a distance of a mile...
outlawjw
Member
I have several guns I have happened upon for really good prices & I love them for what they are & what they can do ,but they are not what is in the picture . I don't think the price was bad ,but I don't feel it was cheap either. It is what it is .
BEWARE THE MAN WITH ONE GUN FOR HE IS GOOD WITH IT. I don't know who!
BEWARE THE MAN WITH ONE GUN FOR HE IS GOOD WITH IT. I don't know who!
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Kame B.
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Thats pretty sweet man, least you kept it under a grand. But more times than others I only need the one shot.
Thats pretty sweet man, least you kept it under a grand. But more times than others I only need the one shot.
Nor have I ever (literally) needed with my old FEG el cheapo AK clone that's barely capable of 4MOA on a good day. Unless you count the pesky paper targets at 300 yards which refuse to die until you've put a drum magazine full of handloads through the center X. Which kind of puts needs and wants into a perspective...
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Kame B.
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Nor have I ever (literally) needed with my old FEG el cheapo AK clone that's barely capable of 4MOA on a good day. Unless you count the pesky paper targets at 300 yards which refuse to die until you've put a drum magazine full of handloads through the center X. Which kind of puts needs and wants into a perspective...
Lol, so true. I may be only shooting 3 shot groups, but to my understanding, 3 shot groups is standard right? But hey I dont mind a little criticism about my rifle. After all she is shooting tight groups with crapola steel case Tulammo, I could only imagine what it would do with a tuned load.
Lol, so true. I may be only shooting 3 shot groups, but to my understanding, 3 shot groups is standard right? But hey I dont mind a little criticism about my rifle. After all she is shooting tight groups with crapola steel case Tulammo, I could only imagine what it would do with a tuned load.
Exactly. Accuracy is great fun and a really fantastic confidence booster, especially when you've shot the rifle a lot and it has proven to be capable of consistent tack driving. That's one of the reasons I like my R-25, it's a genuine 1MOA rifle up to 250, even 300 yards with selected factory ammo, one of which is my favorite medium and big game cartridge. Before I got it my go-to deer rifle was a .308 Saiga I got lucky with; similar accuracy with M1A1 surplus ball ammo, all day long.
In some hunting situations, particularly when you have less than ideal support like shooting sticks or shoot offhand, the focus shifts to what you're capable of then and there with the means at hand. And how confident you are that you can take the shot. I'm definitely not trying to imply that worse accuracy might be better, as it most definitely isn't, but there's a fine line between what's ideal and what's sufficient, combined with the individual confidence factor when you know you can put a bullet where it needs to go in order to confirm a high probability of a swift kill. Nothing is really black and white, rather than an infinite number of shades of gray.
Maybe the standard for folks that want to exaggerate the capabilities of a rifle.
This is exactly what I'm talking about consistent capabilities, when the 2" group is the fluke and the 1/2" group is the norm at 100 yards then you have a 1/2" capable gun.
3 shot groups leaves a lot of room for luck from a gun that shoots 5" 20 shot groups.
AKElroy
Member
I just got the last piece for a PSA 16" middy, CL FN barrel, CMC trigger, Leupold vari x 3 4.5x14x40ao in an American defense ad mount. It s shooting M262 @.5 MOA, and I could not be more pleased.
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Kame B.
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So what does your rifle shoot with basic steel case ammo?
It depends. For my hunting rifles I take a ballpark figure of 3 shot groups with a cold barrel, for range guns it'll be five or even ten shot groups after warming it up with a couple of boxes of ammo. The big picture is so situation dependent that it's impossible to say what "should" be the standard. When all is said and done it'll be little more than splitting hairs by bench racing; the point of all is to know what your rifle is capable of and, most importantly what you can and cannot do with it in a real-world hunting situation. High visibility targets with dime-sized groups may be pretty wallhangers but they don't make much of a BBQ...
mike.h
Member
My off the shelf Colt CRP-18 is sub MOA.
Depends are we using my standard or yours. By mine it'll do ~1.25 MOA by your's it's .5 MOA I'll also add that using your (1 3 shot group) definition my AR would be a 1/8 MOA with Fiocchi Exacta 77gr.
Yes but establishing a standard would be a must to compare accuracy of two rifles.
LOL [SARCASM]Yep bigger groups make better game getters[/SARCASM]
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Kame B.
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I also like to add, since you did watch my videos, you should have noticed that i was not shooting on a rest. I would love to shoot 1/2 inch groups all day but I will be the first person to tell ya that I am not the greatest shooter. I praise my Mini only because it has made me a better shooter. Just because I am not able to shoot tight groups with every pull of the trigger doesn't mean my rifle is not.
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That comment might be some kind of a world record, no less than six posts down from, quoting my own text in case you somehow missed it: "I'm definitely not trying to imply that worse accuracy might be better, as it most definitely isn't
If I got a dollar every time I've had to track a wounded animal for someone whose magic .0001MOA paper punch hasn't by some odd chance managed to severe the right coronary artery with a surgical precision and made a gaping hole in said animal's buttocks instead (clearly a malfunction that should be covered by warranty, huh?), I'd probably be able to buy one of those magic rifles myself. Oh, wait, scratch that, I have a few already. And there's no magic to them, I'm just not good enough shot to choose between which individual hairs I'll place the bullet on a running deer at 100 yards, but so far none has managed to live on that difference. If "the best possible" and "perfectly adequate" were synonyms, I'd hunt with my old single shot 6mm BR unlimited class benchrest rifle that weighs close to 20lbs scoped and has been proven capable of shooting approximately quarter inch five shot groups at 300m/328yd on several occasions. That's 0.07 in MOA-lingo.
But they're not synonyms, which is pretty much the point here. Accuracy is great, especially as a confidence booster (like I already said), but not an end in itself beyond what's required for the task at hand.
outlawjw
Member
Seems to me the subject is at accuracy ,as in are they worth buying or are they junk . I think they are in the OK column as is all guns I have ever owned you pull trigger they go bang something hopefully falls .
Good Job !
Good Job !
Tsk tsk tsk. Considering that this thread originated and went on for some time in hunting section before it was moved and paper has limited edibility, calling for perceived sequitur (instead of concrete one) is clutching at straws at best, and all the wrong straws at that. As it additionally is obvious, the satiric polarization wasn't directed at anyone, with the possible exception of a number of MOA-centric individuals I've had the (dis)pleasure to guide on hunts and to my recollection you personally haven't attended any of them.
I don't like where your argumentation is going and, if anything, false accusations of lack of continuity and especially of personal insults are not The High Road.
Now that this has been said, can we get back to the subject of accuracy, please. The contradiction between absolute and sufficient couldn't be more pronounced than bringing benchrest race guns into the equation. The difference in absolute accuracy between even a mediocre one and a ½MOA production rifle is over sevenfold; larger in percentage than between ½MOA rifle and a 3MOA bullet hose. Does that make any of them inferior or superior in this context? Should we all hunt with benchrest guns then? Of course not; accuracy is just one factor in the big picture. It's not unlike many people who have bought fast cars; they quote 0-60mph figures and Nürburgring lap times, some take theirs to race tracks and have their own laps timed. Still, outside the realm of a perfect environment they're stuck in traffic watching soccer moms disappear in the horizon in their minivans on a car pool lane. That's not a perfect analogy, not by far, just something to think about whether 300% better numbers get the task accomplished any better than whatever suffices nicely.
On the other hand, bringing up the subject fantastically accurate benchrest rifles in a conversation that has veered towards sheer accuracy shouldn't cause a red-rag-to-a-bull -reaction. It's there to give everyone something to think about, a genuine perspective of real world practicality aspect. We can go even further, some current unlimited class guns are bolted to a 1-ton concrete table for shooting and their one ragged hole groups at several hundreds of yards put my old 6mm to shame any day of the week. How far should we go or is there a such thing as a compromise after all? Like I've implied a number of times.
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