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Are expensive 1911's range toys or serious CCW guns?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by dores893, Jul 9, 2019.

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  1. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    According to local sheriff's officers, it's not a range toy and there's no reason to conceal their duty weapon. High-end 1911's like your Wilson are their choice for duty.

    I don't conceal one, but I do carry an even larger and heavier revolver concealed so I don't really have any pity for the guy who carries a 1911.
     
  2. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Bear and Nighthawk build excellent pistols and you would never go wrong with one of them.

    But, I feel that a lower cost M1911 can be as reliable and at self defense ranges can be as effective as the expensive pistols.

    Carry what you are comfortable with.

    Personally, for personnel protection, I'd prefer to carry a 100% reliable yet not as accurate as a high dollar pistol as opposed to carrying the high dollar pistol. I'd love to have one of the high dollar M1911's but I'd rather not put one of these pistols under the difficult conditions a carry pistol would endure.
     
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  3. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Not the grips I normally have on it but they are oil soaked to combat a rusting issue
    _20190106_163348.JPG
     
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  4. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    If you're considering it, you'll do it. My primary carry replaced a HKUSPC, due to me "just needing to carry a 1911", and it totally outperforming the HK. Mine is not a "high end" gun, and it is 3", but it is the most expensive handgun I've purchased. Worth every penny, since 2002. I'd love to have a 3" Wilson, but.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  5. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    A couple of thoughts here:
    • I totally reject the thought process on not carrying the best gun you have for personal defense based on the cost of the gun alone. Believe me, on the far side of a shooting, justified or not, your pricey gun's location is the least of your worries.
    • At contact distances, it is breezy easy to shoot six rounds into the 'down zero' circle in six seconds. Doing so will put a big smile on your face, and relaxing thoughts that you are good enough on that drill.
    • It is ground truth that 1911's in carry mode are not comfortable, but they are comforting.
    Good enough? Then go enjoy a world of 230 grain goodness. WWJS?
     
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  6. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    Would you have a recommendation for an "out of the box" combat reliable 1911?

    Not so much concerned about a bulls eye gun. But the gun must be "Glock 19" reliable.... without any gunsmith tuning. In your opinion..does such a 1911 exists for under $1000?
     
  7. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    TheProf,

    Yes. There's a good dozen 1911s that fit your street-ready, sub $1K requirements. My first thought is get thee to a parkerized Springfield Loaded.
     
  8. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    Yes..I have the Springfield milspec. Glad to hear I made a correct choice.

    I haven't run over 1000 rounds yet on it... hence...my need for others input.

    (I posted this question earlier....just wanted more input. Thanks.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  9. Mullo98

    Mullo98 Member

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    There’s plenty out there, Ruger, Rock Island, and Springfield. All are solid no nonsense choices.
     
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  10. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Milspec should be a solid choice. As noted there are quite a few others that are good under $1k. Nice thing is the most common, modern, issues with 1911s are fairly easy to resolve (extractor tension and bad mags) with a little internet work and possibly a new purchase.

    I had a Ruger and Kimber that needed a bit of adjustment of the extractor tension to run 8 round mags reliably. 10 minutes of YouTube and 5 minutes taking the gun apart fixed it. Both ran factory 7 round mags fine before and after so it's only a flaw after I added aftermarket magazines

    My current carry Dan Wesson is a bit more pricey (original owner got it for $1100, I got it for quite a bit less :evil:) is Rock solid reliable running everything I throw at it, even experimenting with new bullet design and OAL when working up loads, it just runs.

    Better than my Gen 5 Glock, in fact.
     
  11. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    If you can CC a 1911 and want to, go for it.

    If it's reliable and you are accurate with it, it will do the job if necessary.

    I don't understand why the question needs to be asked.
     
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  12. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    I don't even own a 1911 but if it's reliable and you don't mind the weight/size I don't see why it would be a poor choice. I think the capacity concern is way overblown in a civilian defensive pistol. We all know the odds of needing any defensive handgun are really low, and then layer on the odds of needing more than 7+1 plus a spare 7 rounds of 45 (or even more rounds in other calibers)...nothing I'd lose sleep over. That said, I wouldn't personally want to carry anything that big and heavy.
     
  13. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    This one cost me $421 or so, plus shipping and FFL. It was brand-new. I got it about a month ago. I've been ill and out of town, but I've put a hundred or so rounds through it with no malfunctions. The trigger and sights are good. My FiL got a Filipino 1911 made by a different company (Metro Arms) for a bit less and it's even nicer. It has thousands of rounds through it with no malfunctions. The 1911 design had the bugs worked out of it decades ago. If you just want one that goes bang every time, you don't have to spend a lot.

     
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  14. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    The 1911 fan boy's are hot and heavy in this thread! As has been stated, carry what works, what you like, what fits.

    There might be something to carrying an all steel pistol that has not been addressed. A Bud of mine, his Delta Force service type Son had been deployed to deepest, darkest, Africa killing Kony's. The US has thousands if not tens of thousands of troops all over the globe, in combat situations, and the only time we hear about it, is when a few get killed in spectacular incidents. Why we are the World's Policeman is an entirely different issue, but Son was killing Kony's and was using his Dad's customized 1911. Kony's were not nice people, they had a habit of raping and murdering, and thought it was fun to cut the legs off of infants, to see them crawl away crying. You know, the type of fun loving person Progressives encourage to cross our borders.

    The Delta Force guys get to choose anything, Son had used polymer frame pistols, and while they killed Kony's just as well as a steel frame pistol, if you hit a Kony's on the head you ran the risk of the frame breaking. But, a steel frame 1911 held up very well, and would still place a bullet in the head of the Kony as he went spinning down.

    John Brownings design is not the only steel frame pistol on the market, and not the only steel frame 1911 on the market. It does have a huge following, but even though I thought of carrying this:

    Kh44mJG.jpg

    I never did. Wilson did transform a Colt Combat Elite into a great pistol. Something that it should have been from the factory, but it was not. It peened the first frame out in 3000 rounds, Colt replaced it, but the warranty was in terms of five years or so, and I was past the midpoint. Wilson fixed everything, and added more, and now it is an excellent pistol, but it took about two years before Wilson's backlog cleared up enough to send them the pistol Turnaround was quick though.

    After having the safety bump to "ready" a couple of time when carried, and then having a safety bump to "safe", at the range, when I was shooting, I decided cocked and locked was not for me. I removed extended safeties and the ever popular ambi safeties. They were just too easy to bump to ready with waistband carry. Modernized 1911's with beavertails do not go well with condition two carry. The beavertail blocks access to the hammer, both cocking and de cocking the hammer. Beavertail 1911's with extended safeties are great guns for quick draw games, and I played those games with the Combat Elite, but if I were to carry a 1911, I want something in the milspec 1911 configuration, or M1911A1 configuration. Like this:

    bYTfb5t.jpg

    This has an easily thumb cocked hammer, it goes bang, it feeds the next shell, and there is something to be said for low profile snag free sights. The front sight copies the too thin WW1 sight post, I would prefer wider, but you know, most shootings occurr at spitting distances, so point and shoot works well with these sights. This pistol is also cheap. Cheap is fine as long as it is 100% reliable. Accuracy at 25 yards is inferior to the Combat Elite, most bullets will stay within 6 inches, which is just fine for a combat pistol.

    The frame on these are probably stronger than a Glock, and there are no flippers, levers, to play with. This SIG carries one more round in the magazine in 1911 and is as complicated to shoot as a double action revolver. Just pull the trigger and it goes bang

    25N2vY0.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  15. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Range toy, at least for me and at least currently.

    I actually grew up shooting 1911’s.

    90670BC4-0EB2-453D-BF8E-FA59A8DB6B10.jpeg

    One was my first carry pistol. I carried it for years. Eventually I wanted something smaller, lighter and with more rds.

    All the other 1911’s got sold off gradually. Part of it is that other pistols were smaller, lighter, fit my hand better, had a greater capacity, cost less and were less expensive to shoot. I began a love affair with the BHP and that led to a dalliance with her cousin the CZ. Then it was Glocks.

    For the longest time I literally got twice as many rounds of 9mm and .40 for the same amount of .45 ACP. That’s quite a bit of extra practice. What counts most is training and being able to hit your target.

    Gradually it got down to the last two 1911’s, two custom Swenson 1911’s that were my fathers that I won’t be selling. A Commander and a Government model. I shoot them on his birthday, but that’s about it.

    For those that want to stick with custom 1911’s and who have enough scratch to purchase or reload the rds to train with them in order to maintain proficiency, more power to you. I get it. The 1911 has a rich history. That’s just where I’m coming from.
     
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  16. 5-SHOTS

    5-SHOTS Member

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    I don't like the idea of carring a pistol cocked and locked, and in many cases 1911s don't even have a firing pin safety. If I had one it will be used only at the range for fun.
     
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  17. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    Paid close to $3K for my custom 1911 and it is basically my Single Stack competition gun. To big for me to be carrying it as a daily CCW. I have a Kimber Ultra Carry II for that purpose that is a fraction of the cost, still a 1911 and much easier to conceal.
     
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  18. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Never owned a Glock, but have (and have carried) a 5.7, and a 1911.
    The 5.7 has an effective round, is very light, and carries 21 rounds-1 in the pipe, 20 in the mag. The mag release is such a PITA, because for some reason which defies explanation, most manufacturers make a mag release which sticks out of the gun 3/8 of an inch. After removal and considerable grinding, in order to make the mag release a lower profile, on the frame, the 5.7 carries well, as long as you can get over the bulk of size. The sights would make a target pistol proud, so hopefully you can either find a USG model, or mod the sights yourself to combat status. That said, all you have to do, is get used to the rather clunky safety over the trigger.

    The 1911 is a far better pistol, of the two for CC. No mods needed, but a short-barreled model might be in order.

    All things considered, while I would never tell anybody to carry a glock, you would want to consider that, if you had a defensive shooting event, your pistol will, in all likelihood, be confiscated for the foreseeable future.

    Now, do you really want a 1200$ FN 5.7 or 1911, sitting up in a evidence locker, till Heidi brings the sheep home ?
     
  19. Rock185

    Rock185 Member

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    While the Glock 19 has a combination of attributes which make it a very good carry gun, the 1911s are still serious CCW guns IMHO. I carried a 1911 on and off duty a fair amount over the years. My Colt 1911s were reliable in training and qualifications, and I never doubted that they would perform reliably if called upon in a real life lethal force situation. In an actual lethal force situation one time, I happened to be carrying a Glock, and it did malfunction. I'm retired now though, and have to admit that I usually carry something smaller and lighter than a 1911 now days....
     
  20. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    In the unlikely event I'm ever actually involved in a defensive shooting I can guarantee you that my gun sitting in an evidence locker would be among the least of my concerns.
     
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  21. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    I have more than two friends that own Ed Brown 1911's. Both full size and shorter sizes. I carry a full size 1911.

    In each case, for many years the EB was their sole CCW. They've all added guns to their plans and changed things up over the years, but the EB's still maintain a place in the carry strategy. I've shot at least three of the EB's, and want a Kobra Carry for myself someday. I'll carry the hell out of it when I do get it.
     
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  22. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Buy a very expensive gun. Find you shoot it better than anything else. Carry it with confidence. The gun gets beaten up in the process. You eventually die (hopefully of natural causes at a ripe old age). The gun is handed down to one of your kids, who mostly keeps it hidden away somewhere. But when they take it out, what a cool story they have about how their father (or mother) used to carry that gun daily, to protect themselves and the whole family, because they shot it so well.

    The story won't be so cool with off the shelf plastic.

    Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  23. SCMikeyP

    SCMikeyP Member

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    I agree 100%.

    If I ever have to use a gun in self defense I want my best option in my hand, not the one I am willing to do without during the investigation. I've heard that argument time and time again and always laugh to myself a bit trying to picture a scenario where you walk away from a self defense shooting thinking "Damn, I wish I would have been carrying something cheaper!" o_O Head scratcher....

    Then there is the inverse.. walking away from a self defense shooting where you used a Hipoint successfully thinking "hehehe now I can go home and cuddle with my expensive guns" o_O
     
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  24. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    There was one listed recently on Guns International in little used condition for $999. Such guns usually bring about $1200....
    20190711_132226.jpg
     
  25. Browning

    Browning Member

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    In these kinds of posts it always tries to insert the idea that anything that costs less than a Wilson Combat, an Ed Brown or a Nighthawk 1911 is somehow not up to the task of defending ones self with.

    Now I guess someone could defend themselves with a Hi Point if they had very little money and had nothing else. It’s been done before. It’ll be done again.

    However most of the pistols that people own, use and carry for defense are somewhere between those two extremes (I. E. Glock, CZ, Sig, Walther, H&K, S&W, Beretta, FN, Ruger, Kahr and even a Taurus or ten etc). Most often in defensive shootings these kinds of pistols are the ones likely to turn up.

    People don’t need to spend $3,380, $3,495 or $4,549 to buy a pistol to defend themselves with. That’s a false premise.
     
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