Are small base dies a MUST for AR reloading?

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blackops

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Hello fellas,

Title pretty much says it all. I built a 308 AR. Was wondering if small base AR dies are really needed for reloading? I've seen mixed reviews. What say you? Anybody had feeding issues with normal
308 dies? I have a RCBS 308 die set, but I'm getting ready to buy the AR small base for set for my first AR 308.

Your time is appreciated.
 
The "General" answer is NO..

:rolleyes:

If you have a good die set, and they are adjust properly, NO, you should not need small base dies.

I have a small base RCBS die set in .223, and I use my Redding standard Full Length set for all of my AR loads..

I have yet to have ANY problems with my loads using the Redding standard dies..YMMV..Bill.:)
 
I have a set of RCBS SB 308 dies and have yet to use them. For my AR10 I have been using my standard RCBS 308 dies or sometimes the RCBS Comp FL dies and never had an issue. So if the need arises I have them but have yet to use them.

Ron
 
I have a set of RCBS small base dies for one of my calibers I shoot through ARs- can't recall which exactly off the top of my head, but I only got them because that happened to be what was in stock at the time and I didn't want to wait or shop around. Haven't had any hiccups with regular 'ol dies.
 
Adjusted properly as to what?
According to manufacturer's destructions... err instructions. :)

I run my sizing die down with the ram up till the die bumps the shell holder. I lower the ram and give about 1/8 additional turn. I feel the press cam over and start resizing and depriming.

Ron
 
I have not found the need for S/B dies for my 223 or 308 AR's. I do have S/B dies in both calibers since I reload for a variety of AR gas guns and other gas guns (HK 91/93, FAL, M-1A) and I have them just in case, however, I've not needed them for my AR's.

If you haven't purchased a set of dies yet for that caliber, there's no harm in buying the S/B dies. Some will say the S/B dies will overwork your brass, but practically speaking, your gas gun will beat the brass more than a properly adjusted S/B die will.

The most important thing is to properly adjust the F/L sizing die to not over bump the case shoulders. Improperly adjusted dies will over work your brass.

The only rifle I've needed a S/B die was for a Steyr SSG 69. The chamber in that rifle was very snug and required a die to size the base of the case no more than .468". Anything over .468", would not chamber.
 
Nope. I've been reloading for quite a few years with regular dies for my .223 AR loads as well as .30/06 reloads for my M1 Garand. Set the regular dies up correctly and that's all you have to worry about.
 
I use SB dies for the 5.56 and FL for the .308 & 30.06. All are shot through a semi-auto and I don't have problems with any of them.
There isn't anything wrong with the SB dies either.
The only time I saw what may have been a problem with SB dies was with machine gun fired brass. You can usually tell it's machine fired by looking at the rims and it's harder to push into a die.
 
this is my story.

My first .223 was a Thompson Center Encore, my first set of .223 dies were standard rcbs dies. Before I bought my first AR I asked on this forum about using standard dies, and I was assured my dies would be fine. That was wrong, rounds loaded with the standard dies would not chamber. I now own a set of rcbs small base dies. I just finished an AR in 300 blk, I asked again on here about dies and the consensus was to go with small base dies. My new 300 blk dies should get here this week. My advice would be if you have access to standard dies try them, and then decide what to buy. If you don't have access to standard dies to try buy the small base dies.
 
I have needed small base dies for my AR10,
it was because I was shooting brass that had been previously fired in a machine gun and it was way oversized. the small base dies helped get it back into shape. perhaps my chamber is on the tight side as well. after my initial issues and buying the small base dies I have not tried resizing any brass for that gun using anything but the small base dies.
 
For reloading for an AR, I recommend that if you do not have any dies, buy a small base sizing die. It is cheap insurance against chambering problems and there are no ill effects.

But, if you already have a standard die set, they should serve you well especially if you only use cases fired in your rifle. Just be aware that you may run into chambering problems when using cases fired in a different rifle than yours. The chance of problems will be small, but it does exist.

I have two AR-15s and one particular standard full length sizing die that cases fired in one of the rifles and full length sized in the die will not chamber in the other rifle. And yes, the die is adjusted correctly.

If i use a small base die, I can use any case in any of several rifles that I have chambered in 223 Remington. No need to segregate cases by rifle.
 
I load for several different Semi-auto rifles, AR-15's, Browning BARs, Ruger Mini, Rem. 742 to name a few and none, not a single one of my semi-Auto rifle ever needed the over-sizing of a Small base die.

If you are going to use, "once fired" brass purchased from the internet it may have been fired from a Full auto machine gun. if this is your goal, then you may want to get a SB sizing die to size this over expanded stuff, once, then you can go back to your regular sizing die.

If you are not going to use machine gun brass then forget the SB die.
 
NO. I have four AR platforms, a Mini 14 and a bolt gun. I use standard dies with a case gauge and process my brass exactly the same for all of these guns. I've never had a problem with brass in any of these guns. I believe small base dies are unnecessary as long as you prepare brass properly. There are folks who use SB dies to prevent problems. That's fine if you think you need them. I do not.
 
I am of the opinion that small base sizing is safety critical for Garand mechanisms as firearms built around a Garand type action slamfire both in battery and out of battery. Having an interference fit case and a sensitive primer is the most common characteristic and highest risk situation in out of battery slamfires in Garand mechanisms.

However, the firing pin is totally contained in the bolt of a AR action and therefore given a tight case, about the worst thing that will happen is a failure to chamber or a failure to extract.

AR10 actions have a heavy bolt carrier and this action will crunch fit slightly tight cases to the chamber. But, even so, I would recommend small base dies as they size cases to factory dimensions than standard sizing dies.


I have 308 and 30-6 gages, cut by Gene Barnett which are a little out of the ordinary. He cut these gages with his chambering reamer. Standard cartridge headspace gages are cut with a special reamer that is wide in the middle. A standard cartridge headspace gage measures length, not “fatness”. A reamer cut headspace gage will show you if the case is too long and too “fat” for that chamber.

I have a number of 308 small base dies, and I still have my Lee standard die.

I sized a number of my match cases in the Lee die. All of them dropped in the reamer cut case gage. So, if you said you don’t need small base dies, you would be correct most of the time.

So now I had to scratch around trying to find cases that would prove my point.

These two cases are once fired range pickup brass that I found in my brass box. I had to go through about 20 cases before I found a set of really ballooned cases. On the right is the Barnett reamer cut gage.

OncefiredWRA68caseheads.jpg

OncefiredWRA68unsizedincasegages.jpg





If you notice one case has completed dropped into the Wilson cartridge headspace gage, while the other has not dropped into the Barnett reamer cut gage. This shows how much they have swelled up after being fired. Must have been a big chamber.

The second picture is of the fattest of the group after sizing in with Lee Die. I trimmed the thing to make sure that the case neck did not interfere with the throat in the gage.

WRAtrimmedandLeediesizedcase.jpg



Hopefully you can see that the case did not drop all the way in the case gage. At least on its own. It would have taken a good hard push to get that base all the way in.
WRAsizedinLeedie.jpg



This is after resizing in my RCBS small base die. I could not find the RCBS box, so the case/gage are sitting on a Redding small base box. However, that little additional sizing removed the interference fit.

WRAresizedinRCBSSmallbasedie.jpg


Sometimes cases are so ballooned that even a small base die won’t reduce the case to factory dimensions. It all depends on the chamber the round was fired in.

I know it is extra effort to size cases with small base dies, if you use a good lube like Imperial Sizing wax or RCBS case lube, the effort is somewhat reduced. Still for all the extra bother involved in sizing with small base dies I'll do it for my Garands and M1a's. With those rifles I don’t want any resistance to chambering, I don’t want any delay to bolt closure. Because as the bolt stops and the lugs are turning, that darn free floating firing pin is just tapping the heck out of the primer.
 
I use Standard Lee dies for all my AR loads without issue. Was about to buy a small base die for 223/5.56 when a member sugested that I turn my sizing dies down another turn. And that was the secret to sizing full length cases. That was thousands of rounds ago and I thank him again. Give it a try before spending money on a tool you own already.:D
 
I use the Lee dies and have had no issues in my AR or Mini14. (including using mixed range brass)
I also use the Wilson case guage.

So for my rifles small base dies are not necessary.
 
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