Arnold is a traitor. Don't let your gunmaker be too

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Here is the simple answer.....

California can have their micro stamping. I won't boycott any gun companies over that. I am not in California and whatever the Cali .gov passed to mandate this isn't my problem (yet). But I will let the gun companies know that I will not buy any products in my state that are micro stamped, so they better make special Cali-only firing pins. The Cali buyers can absorb ALL the added cost because its a California issue and either the company can suck it up or pass it on to the people of Cali. But I don't want any part of it. I am sorry, but if you choose to live in a state like Cali, you deserve to pay for every cent extra is costs the company to do this for your state in order to keep our prices as they are. You are responsible for your own screwy government.
 
So to those who are against the boycott, what do you suggest should be done?
Boycott any where laws like this become law. Any product from or company that pays their taxes there. Things would change in a hurry but like always gun owners seem bent of arguing among them selves and nothing gets done except more gun laws. Again we gun owners lose. Propaganda has us a house divided and so we fall, one step at a time.
 
Zunflge said:
If we don't punish gun manufacturers that comply with this new California law, we WILL have this crap from coast to coast. Period.


I will not purchase a firearm of any kind from a company that produces a "microstamping" model or sells non-microstamping guns to state, county or municipal governments in CA after this law takes effect. The same with the lead ammo ban.

The fifth largest economy will have to do without new guns for while or gunowners will need to display their displeasure in a meaningful way.

If gun makers retool for this "niche" market, they will not have a separate line for the other 49. You will all get microstamped guns. Even if microstamping doesn't work consistently, you will have to find every single piece of brass you fire, on the off chance that a unique ID number is on it, one that can be traced back to you.

I don't want to punish the gun companies, but I can't think of another disincentive to prevent California-compliant guns from being sold EVERYWHERE. I want you to convince the gun makers to punish California, by threatening to not buy their products if they retool. Maybe some of you "Free Staters" can have your state legislators pass laws that prevent microstamped guns from being sold there.

This entire idea is based on the assumption that if the gun makers comply, then anti-gunners in other states will take up the idea and try this in other states.

*** do you think will happen if your boycott campaign is successful and suddenly there are no handguns sold in Kommifornia?

The main focus is on our state's Law Enforcement, who are of course exempted from the ban, just as they can buy guns that are on the prohibited list, just as they can have magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, etc. Cops are not held to the same laws here as "civilians". No new guns to California LEO, no servicing of existing weapons, and the Law Enforcement and Corrections unions will put the pressure on the state legislators who they already own. Do a search on the California prison system and the union that controls it. It's been handed over to the Feds because the conditions and the overcrowding violate the US Constitution. Corrections officers are considered Law Enforcement here--and they are a formidable political power in this state. Imagine what might happen if they can no longer get new toys.

I'm willing--no, eager--to see no new semiautos sold to California if Law Enforcement is deprived too--because that is the only way the law will be repealed.

Green lantern said:
As for companies being "punished" and losing a TON of money by writing California off - Honestly - How can the market in ONE STATE compare to the market of FORTY-NINE of them???

It's a big Effing market here, big enough that the makers CAN'T afford to not make their guns compliant, unless the rest of the US shooting market threatens to boycott them. We're the world's sixth-largest economy! you can bet the makers are ready to retool NOW. You will get a microstamped gun, and YOU will pay a higher price for that gun.

only1asterisk said:
I will not purchase a firearm of any kind from a company that produces a "microstamping" model or sells non-microstamping guns to state, county or municipal governments in CA after this law takes effect.

Yep, he gets the idea, But call them up and tell them. If they hear it from enough of us, they'll be loathe to make the change. The bottom line is what decides it, not idealism.

Hopefully the USSC sides on the side of the 2nd in the DC case so someone in California can try it as an unconstitutional gun ban being that the technology either doesn't exist or doesn't function.

I thought of that, but microstamping isn't a restriction against ownership, at least not directly, so Parker vs D.C. isn't likely to have an impact against it. Against "May issue" definitely, but not this one.

Clipper said:
Everyone has their price...I would have left CA long ago, but obviously some are willing to stay and dance to the insane music of an asylum that's run by the inmates. Perhaps this will cause more to leave. I myself would like to see the gun manufacturers get together and draw the line at the CA border and simply as a group refuse to do any further business in CA. Sure it would cause a hardship for gun owners who stay there, but I have no sympathy for 'em anymore. Get out. Leave that disease of a state to become the mecca for wierdos, hippies and druggies, gang-bangers and all the other self-deluded idiots nobody else wants, and when the whole place falls into the ocean, we'll get to quit dealing with them at all. For those who make the decision to value whatever hoops they have to jump through over what wonderful RIGHTS they could have elsewhere, all I can do is shake my head.... Those with the capacity for inteligent thought have a few years to get yourselves relocated. Those who stay deserve what they get...

I'd like to get out, but I can't afford to go elsewhere right now. My job skills, and lack thereof, are going to stick me in a big city somewhere. And honestly, my leaving only helps me. It won't affect California in any measurable way. It won't help anyone else, here or elsewhere.

Can't smoke in a public place? Get fined for not wearing a seatbelt? Hate crime enhancements? Non-lead birdshot? Where do you think these intrusions on our rights get their start? Idaho? Tennessee? Kansas? Unless you flex your collective (oh, the irony) muscles now, you'll be buying microstamped guns whether you know it or not.

As some of you have said, California is screwed--mostly for reasons not even mentioned here. But we're also your canary in the coalmine. When WE drop off our perch, YOU have to take action immediately, or it does you no damn good at all.
 
This is what Arnold wrote about signing the bill:
To the Members of the California State Assembly:
I am signing Assembly Bill 1471.
While I appreciate and understand that this technology is not without limitations, I am
signing this bill to provide law enforcement with an additional tool for solving crimes
committed with semi-automatic handguns in California.
Public safety is one of the most important roles of government and I encourage all
stakeholders to work on improving this technology so that it may become an even more
effective crime fighting tool.
Sincerely,
Arnold Schwarzenegger
From: http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2007bills/AB 1471 Signing Message.pdf

This will be an interesting topic to follow...
 
You guys should just stop supplying the CA government with your tax dollars, move out here to free America with the rest of us (hell, enough of your idiotic state-mates have come to my state and started screwing us blue) and fight the fight from a position of strength instead of fighting a dead cause.

You might want to consider that most of the people that move out of California are the right thinking ones that are tired of the BS. My wife and I fit into that category and moved out last year.

Stop blaming a few California imports for your state's problems. Colorado has been a well known haven for lefties for years now.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping

There is a link to an interesting read on microstamping.

A very interesting part the article brings up is the fact that it is illegal to remove any serial number from a gun. The microstamp on the firing pin is a serial number. This will actually wear away after shooting a lot of ammo. Does this them make your gun illegal? What do you do if a firing pin brakes?? I guess the only legal thing to do is have a new pin with the correct serial number on it made. Oh wait…..can any one even do that?
Then there is the fact that in the wikipedia article only about half of the primers had a serial number stamped into it that was legible, so there is that.

Of course that information, if it is there, is only useful if the gun is legally owned and even then in some situations they still won’t be able to track it down to the person who owns currently.

There are just sooooo many impractical holes in this law it really borders on comically ridiculous.

AND HERE IS THE KICKER GUYS AND GALS

The guy who came up with this idea and is trying to get rich off of it is Todd Lizotte. Todd states that he is a conservative, a Republican AND….a member of the NRA!!! :banghead:

Youtube actually has Todd pitching the microstamping technology to some part of the California State Gov. in which he states is political affiliations.

Is he really just unwittingly helping out the antigun people or is he totally full of it.
 
I'd like to get out, but I can't afford to go elsewhere right now. My job skills, and lack thereof, are going to stick me in a big city somewhere. And honestly, my leaving only helps me.
You have to want out bad enough is the secret. I literally said "I would rather work at the Circle K than live here any longer". It has not always been a smooth ride but the quality of my life has been worth ever minute of it. Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do, stay or go. Success or the money can depend too. I left a good self employed business my ex left a mediocre job. She has done far better than she probably would have ever done in Ca. I have done worse than I expected. Like I already said "worth every minute. My kid was 8 when we came here, he grew up here, that is pricless, again my life has been far better and leaving Ca was "worth every minute".
 
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How about this.. Forget the manufacturers and Boycott California. If the people of the state can't get it together then Boycott the whole state. Stop buying California Wine, Cheese, Produce, and anything else made there, this would make much more sense but would unfortunately still punish innocent people. It's not that big of a concern since Boycotts don't work unless a large group of people are behind them and as we've seen over the years gun owners aren't very good at getting behind anything. We as a group are horrible at sticking together and are way to factionalized! We need more unity--just look at how few gun owners are NRA members --everyone can come up with some BS reason why they won't join instead of joining and trying to make a difference. Getting on the High Road and moaning doesn't do very much. Banding together and taking a political stand does-If you don't like the NRA join and change it! Look at the upcomming election--there is no serious Pro-Gun candidate on either side (Ron Paul whatever he has made too many whack statements to be taken seriously by the majority of Americans). We need to do something in this country before we all are radio chip tagged and only allowed to use plastic knives at home. --note I don't wear a tinfoil hat but it's a slippery slope on our privacy and rights. Microstamping is ridiculous and doesn't even work--Guns can already be matched to fired rounds by forensic experts so is it really necessary? The Antis will argue this along with, "If you aren't involved in crimes why do you care." at which point any baited response we give back makes us all look like criminals or kooks. We have to say at some point with our rights and freedom enough is enough you can't take any more away this isn't 1939 and we don't live in Germany.
 
It's not that big of a concern since Boycotts don't work unless a large group of people are behind them and as we've seen over the years gun owners aren't very good at getting behind anything.
IIRC, S&W executives have claimed that the boycott hurt them enough to drive down the value of S&W to the point where the Brits that owned it (and stabbed us in the back) had to sell it cheap to a bunch of Americans.

Then there's Jim Zumbo. If we could raise just a 10th of the ire against some old dude that likes to shoot bambi because of disparaging comments he made about our EBRs I'd think we could force the hand of any gun manufacturer out there (with maybe the exception of HK which tells us we suck and they hate us and maybe someone like Colt which like HK doesn't like us "civilians" too much ... now that Bill Ruger is dead I figure Ruger will toe the line).
 
Is he really just unwittingly helping out the antigun people or is he totally full of it.

I think he may be just a fool that hasn't learned that you can't sell out "a little" to the anti-gun crowd - in the end, they'll accept ALL or NOTHING!
 
Any gun company that seels these microstamped guns in California and seels non-microstamped guns to California law enforcement will not get my money.

Yes, it is appropriate to punish the gun makers. They have the ability to not sell or service guns in California.

Will it hurt them? Yes.

However, NOT taking a stand now will ultilmately spell the demise for their entire industry. Most of the companies cannot survive on LE sales alone. Gun sales in most parts of the country are at all time highs. Gun ownership and shooting in general are becoming MORE popular in most places.

This type of crap is really indicative of the failure of Democracy. People are too stupid to collectively govern themselves responsibly. Pass any damn law you want as long as I can keep my Volvo, my iPhone, and my McMansion. Sorry, I am ranting. But I am angry.
 
CA may have lots of people, and lots of money, but in an anti-gun society like theirs, how large a slice of the gun market pie are they? I'll bet they're actually a small market compared to the rest of the country. The gun manufacturers will not deal with CA if they're convinced that complying with this law for the sake of that CA slice will remove a larger hunk of pie than they'll save. Let 'em know in no uncertain terms that if they comply, they can kiss even 15% of their revenue bye-bye, and they'll pass on CA, I guarantee it...
 
Yes, it is appropriate to punish the gun makers. They have the ability to not sell or service guns in California.

Will it hurt them? Yes.

Will it hurt us? Yes.

So we don't collectively ask gun makers not sell to CA, we threaten them as our first volley?

So I bet if we collapse enough companies by boycotting them because of this issue, what do you think will happen to those companies? What will happen to the government agencies depending on those weapons? More than likely, there will be a federal bail out and bailed out gun companies will become federalized institutions that will supply materials to the government only. Wouldn't that be just a kicker?
 
Get it together!

I agree with 2RCO in that the only way to succeed against the liberal anti-gunners is for we gun owners to support NRA (change it if you don't like it, but DO something), and similar 2nd amendment rights efforts.
The Brady people and their counterparts put the gun owners to shame when it comes to an organized effort in support of "their" cause. It's been my experience that gun owners tend to rant, rather than get behind any cohesive effort to support our beliefs. We had better smarten up, or we'll lose something that will never be given back.
 
You will never get a boycott to work. I will predict here and now that GLOCK will not jump on board, and I doubt S&W will. If even one major manufacturer doesn't boycott all you've done is take choice away from the people of CA and the LEO's of CA.

What we really need to to get Gun owners in CA to get active and run our elected officials out of office. It's not just guns these people screw up, it's everything.
 
You will never get a boycott to work. I will predict here and now that GLOCK will not jump on board, and I doubt S&W will. If even one major manufacturer doesn't boycott all you've done is take choice away from the people of CA and the LEO's of CA.

I predict the OPPOSITE: Glock and S&W WILL jump on board.

Ruger won't, because their handguns aren't used by any LEOs and they are nearly 100% "civilian" sales with their autos (because they suck in comparison). Other off-brand autos won't jump either, because they get no LEO sales and the "civilian" sales in CA won't be worth the bottom line.

Springfield will jump, Kimber will jump. Sig will jump. HK will jump. Beretta will jump.

The custom 1911 makers won't go with it. Wilson, STI, etc. will be hurt more by complying since they cater to gun enthusiasts who hate this law and will react with their wallets.

I don't have plans to buy any Kimbers, Sigs or HKs... but I do have plans to buy a couple more Springers of various makes. I will be letting them know, as a 2-gun springfield customer and a shopper for at least 2 more of their products, that my plans will certainly change if they comply with this.
 
Ed Ames said:
When I wanted to go shooting in California I just drove out into the desert and set up some targets. Nobody bothered me. Nobody cared. Occasionally someone else would drive out to the same general area and we'd wave at each other but that was it. Try that in North Texas. Try it anywhere in Texas.
Uh okay, no problem. I actually do that quite often. All you need to do is 1) Find un-incorporated land -that- 2) is not privately owned. Failing 2, got to 3) Ask the owner. Not a problem.

Ed Ames said:
where I grew up we had about the same population as Texas (the whole state)
Either you were born in Tokyo or you are telling a tall tale there.

I kid you not, if you take the L.A. Metro area you have a very large fraction of the entire population of Texas in an area smaller than most eastern states.
LA Metro pop: 12.9mil
Tx Pop: 23.5mil
 
What I fear is that rather than bothering to make "Cali Models" and "Free State Models" of everything, the makers will go to ALL Cali models! Especially since they can charge God-knows how much MORE for them!
I'm in agreement with this point. The gun makers will go all-or-nothing on their production.

I know that should that happen, and I need a pistol, I'll be buying a pre-2010 model, that will be taking money away from the makers because they have already received payment from the original purchaser. It isn't a boycott, it's a decision to buy used rather than new.

Right now, the only thing I can see to do is to start writing letters. To the manufacturers, telling them you won't be buying microstamp models, and to your state's legislators, telling them that since Cali passed this law, there will be similar legislation being introduced in other states, and that you fully expect them to so strongly oppose that legislation that it never makes it past introduction.

Californians need to be writing to your governor, telling him that if you have anything to say about it, his tenure as governor will be ending very soon, and don't even bother running for senate, it would waste his time.
 
The idea is that since we CAN NOT get through to the law makers maybe we can get through to the companies.

Yeah, we don't like the law.

Can we get it repealed? No.

Get we get the guy who signs the laws out? No

And if we can what will it solve? Nothing.

So we rebel and force/ask manufacturers to stop delivering guns to California.

The manufacturers take a financial hit for a while but its just in one state.

Or

If they retool and manufacture microstamping guns for California they take a bigger hit from shooters from all other 49 states who cease to buy from them.

Suddenly the state is begging for weapons.

The manufacturers are more than willing to supply them if only they do one thing.

Cease requiring micro stamping.

The law gets repealed because people, cops, security guards need their weapons and then everything gets one step closer to "normal" in California.

When will we learn that "We the people" run this country. Not the politicians.
 
Look.. Boycotts do not work.

Contact the gun makers. Tell them that you will support them 110% should they decide to not sell any firearms to Ca LEO. After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander too.

No threats of boycotts... just gently remind them of what Barrett did.

Or ask them to ignore the law and send guns with out microstamp. After all, there is no obligation to obey illegal laws.
 
The title of this thread is wrong. Ahnold is not a traitor. In order to be a traitor, Ahnold would have been pro-gun sometime during his life. Folks, Ahnold was never pro-gun. Ahnold is a dedicated anti. Anyone who voted for Ahnold believing that he is pro-gun must have stood in the sun too long.
 
I don't know if someone already wrote this, but I don't see a problem with the law. Yes it is stupid, but that never stopped California in the past. California gets to be the guinea pig for something that will waste time, effort and money, and have nothing to show for it.

Much like the fiasco we saw back east in, I think it was Maryland (and Mass?) with the millions wasted on "fingerprinting" cases, at some point the police and/or populace will want to see results for all the money they're going to have to spend on the bureaucracy and equipment.

When it becomes clear that the law does nothing but waste money, they'll start wanting it spent where it can actually do something good, like more officers on the streets, for example.
 
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