ATF C&R Insp?

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jonnyc

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I know I've read a few discussions on ATF inspections of C&R holders, but I don't recall an answer to this question:
Is the inspector legally allowed to photograph/copy/scan/make a list of the serial numbers, descriptions, names and addresses in your Bound Book?
TIA
 
when i lived in AZ i had them ask me to send them a copy of my book... turned out an old nangant revolver i had traded to a guy ended up getting stolen and he didn't have a serial for it for the police report, but since i had originally bought it with my C&R i had all the info... would have been easier on my nerves for them to just tell me this up front than to demand copies of my log book.

that was the only time i ever had to deal with them in the past 10 years....
 
jonnyc ...Is the inspector legally allowed to photograph/copy/scan/make a list of the serial numbers, descriptions, names and addresses in your Bound Book?
In the course of an investigation, yes.
Just because he wants all your info, no.
 
So, Dogtown, during a "regular" inspection, that would not be allowed? Hmmmm, I wonder how one would go about telling them to stop.
 
I had a C&R from '96-05.I was NEVER inspected.That was the beauty of a C&R ffl,no inpection.I'm not so sure I would have a C&R ffl now.Its not suck a great dela as many ffls won't accept it.
 
While you could split legal hairs on this, the ATF is basically entitled to the info in your bound book if they want it and you have a FFL/3. I've had mine almost ten years and they havn't asked me a thing. That's the nature of the deal when you apply for the license and we all know it going in; they have a right to inspect your records and collection. As for copying the thing as a whole??? I don't see that you could really stop them in practical terms.
 
You should read this post in General Discussion.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=737291

Not sure how C&R is but as a licensed dealer they do NOT have the authority to mass copy/scan your records without your consent. Read the attached letter in that thread about how it can be refused (again, this is an FFL, not sure about C&R).
 
Twmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
So, Dogtown, during a "regular" inspection, that would not be allowed? Hmmmm, I wonder how one would go about telling them to stop.

C&R holders are not subject to regular inspections. You can of course be 'asked' by the BATFE to produce your bound book.
Mike,
They are just as subject to a yearly inspection as any other licensee. Anytime an ATF IOI asks to review your bound book.......it's a compliance inspection. The only difference between the inspection of a dealer or manufacturer vs C&R is that an 03 undergoing an inspection has the option of meeting with ATF at the local ATF office.

While compliance inspections of 03's are less frequent than 01 &07's they do occur. At my last inspection the IOI told me they did several 03's each month.

§478.23 Right of entry and examination.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), any ATF officer, when there is reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred and that evidence of the violation may be found on the premises of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, may, upon demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate and obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, enter during business hours (or, in the case of a licensed collector, the hours of operation) the premises, including places of storage, of any such licensee for the purpose of inspecting or examining:

(1) Any records or documents required to be kept by such licensee under this part and

(2) Any inventory of firearms or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer at such premises or any firearms curios or relics or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed collector at such premises.

(b) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during business hours the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, ammunition and firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) In the course of a reasonable inquiry during the course of a criminal investigation of a person or persons other than the licensee,

(2) For insuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part:

(i) Not more than once during any 12-month period, or

(ii) At any time with respect to records relating to a firearm involved in a criminal investigation that is traced to the licensee, or

(3) When such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in closest proximity to the collectors premises.

(d) The inspections and examinations provided by this section do not authorize an ATF officer to seize any records or documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If an ATF officer seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided the licensee within a reasonable time.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10492, Mar. 31, 1988; as amended by T.D. ATF-363, 60 FR 17450, Apr. 6, 1995]
 
On my 3d or 4th renewal of my C&R and have not been checked yet. Think if they ever contact me I would rather go to their office than have them in my home if that is a option.
 
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