It was only one very, very small act of "activism," but I got up and walked out of church, Presbyterian Church, today in the middle of the sermon. After retelling the story of Jesus healing a man born blind (John 9), the minister launched into a tirade about the evils of assault weapons and how she was from a military family and knew all about guns and on and on, but that "we" all need to see that these "assault weapons are evil" and that they need to be outlawed. Not only that but by implication, anyone who doesn't "see" this evil and agree with her can't be a good Christian. I admit that I didn't hear the rest of her harangue because I got up and walked out. I had attended this church for more than fifteen years. Today was my last day. The weekly contribution that I had been making to the church will now go to the NRA.
Attacked by Minister in Church Today
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beeenbag
Member
Sounds like “she” is seeking glory in her position and not letting the glory go where it is due.
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JeffG
Member
I don't agree that an object is evil. Applying those traits to inanimate objects borders on superstition. People often then go on to say that there are no evil people, which is fallacy. As far as some pastors position of what makes a good Christian... let's stick to the Commandments.
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I hope you are able to persuade some of the congregation that steel holds no malice, regardless of shape.
Further, she (another bad case of fatherless families) should have a superior that should be notified of her severe liberal attitude. A man is not evil for owning a tool. If her family was military, she would know that.
Coincidentally, my mother's foster brother's cousin's neighbor is a pilot for Delta. So I can safely say that single engine Cessnas are made out of cheese. And anyone that owns one is a miscreant that only wishes to destroy the planet.
(Same principle. Someone who is not me, is loosely related to something I don't like, and even though they are no expert, I will act as though I am and open my mouth only for the good of "us" all...)
Further, she (another bad case of fatherless families) should have a superior that should be notified of her severe liberal attitude. A man is not evil for owning a tool. If her family was military, she would know that.
Coincidentally, my mother's foster brother's cousin's neighbor is a pilot for Delta. So I can safely say that single engine Cessnas are made out of cheese. And anyone that owns one is a miscreant that only wishes to destroy the planet.
(Same principle. Someone who is not me, is loosely related to something I don't like, and even though they are no expert, I will act as though I am and open my mouth only for the good of "us" all...)
Hokie_PhD
Member
I’m so sorry to hear this.
Kudos for walking out. I know how hard that is.
When you have a little time, please write to her. Tell how how offensive that sermon was and that you walked out, and that you’ll be contributing to the NRA. Letting her know will at least help her see the error of her ways.
She may be dead set I. Her conviction. But having to read that some of us use them for sport, enjoy building and fiddling with them and that 99.999% aren’t used for evil will at least do something useful. Be respectful. Explain the shooting sports, how 3 gun is one of the fastest growing shooting sports. Explain how ARs are used for hunting. That the anti gun lie doesn’t account for those who control problematic wild animals.
Finally let her know the AWB didn’t work and we need real solutions not ones that will kill thousands of jobs and destroy a great sport.
Again it may have no impact. But writing her may hit a nerve. Plus it’ll help you have something to send to others and it’ll help in the fight against others like her as you’ll be able to explain our position better.
Kudos for walking out. I know how hard that is.
When you have a little time, please write to her. Tell how how offensive that sermon was and that you walked out, and that you’ll be contributing to the NRA. Letting her know will at least help her see the error of her ways.
She may be dead set I. Her conviction. But having to read that some of us use them for sport, enjoy building and fiddling with them and that 99.999% aren’t used for evil will at least do something useful. Be respectful. Explain the shooting sports, how 3 gun is one of the fastest growing shooting sports. Explain how ARs are used for hunting. That the anti gun lie doesn’t account for those who control problematic wild animals.
Finally let her know the AWB didn’t work and we need real solutions not ones that will kill thousands of jobs and destroy a great sport.
Again it may have no impact. But writing her may hit a nerve. Plus it’ll help you have something to send to others and it’ll help in the fight against others like her as you’ll be able to explain our position better.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Perhaps, if you're so inclined to try to reason with her, you could take this tack:
Were the idols worshipped by the Sumerians and Romans evil? Could destroying the idols themselves suddenly convince these wicked people to immediately change their ways and turn to God? No, it was the people who were evil, the idols of their own making and no more than lumps of stone and gold.
She sees the assault rifle as some sort of idol for those who would do evil with it, but the truth is hateful people will still be evil if you take their idols. They will still find ways to do harm. Perhaps you could suggest she should be seeking out those with hate in their hearts and getting them to seek God, rather than giving political speeches. THAT is how she can make a real difference!
Thanks, Doc, edited to reflect that I meant it as a solution, not a rant.
Were the idols worshipped by the Sumerians and Romans evil? Could destroying the idols themselves suddenly convince these wicked people to immediately change their ways and turn to God? No, it was the people who were evil, the idols of their own making and no more than lumps of stone and gold.
She sees the assault rifle as some sort of idol for those who would do evil with it, but the truth is hateful people will still be evil if you take their idols. They will still find ways to do harm. Perhaps you could suggest she should be seeking out those with hate in their hearts and getting them to seek God, rather than giving political speeches. THAT is how she can make a real difference!
Thanks, Doc, edited to reflect that I meant it as a solution, not a rant.
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bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
And she didn't even mention the evilness of the miscreant who used the rifle.
She needs a good dose of the Holy spirit. And her boss should tear her a new one. That would enlighten her as to the true evil in our society
Mod note: Guys as a matter of policy we don't do religion or politics on THR so express your indignation in the form of a solution.
Doc
She needs a good dose of the Holy spirit. And her boss should tear her a new one. That would enlighten her as to the true evil in our society
Mod note: Guys as a matter of policy we don't do religion or politics on THR so express your indignation in the form of a solution.
Doc
Yesterday at mass no one said a thing about my Kimber. Of course, no one saw it either (or, if they did, they were too polite to comment). As far as a solution, it comes down to finding a church that you are comfortable with. Comfortable includes a lot of factors. I have only attended one "anti" church.
When I started attending, in the town I work in, I made an appointment with the priest. It was primarily a "get to know" meeting. It also allows him to have some basic information about me in case anyone at work were to call him in that case of some workplaces accident. I suppose a way of feeling the church out would be to ask the priest, pastor, or imam (. . . or whatever, I could keep going on this theme; but I think you get the idea) if there are any men's group shooting activities. At that point, even if the answer is no, watch for tone and body language.
When I started attending, in the town I work in, I made an appointment with the priest. It was primarily a "get to know" meeting. It also allows him to have some basic information about me in case anyone at work were to call him in that case of some workplaces accident. I suppose a way of feeling the church out would be to ask the priest, pastor, or imam (. . . or whatever, I could keep going on this theme; but I think you get the idea) if there are any men's group shooting activities. At that point, even if the answer is no, watch for tone and body language.
Sistema1927
Member
Do yourself a favor and find a Bible believing conservative church. I am a Baptist, but recognize that you can probably find what you need in the OPC.
P5 Guy
Member
The Presbyterian and many other denominations' ruling committees hold pacifism above defense.
AlexanderA
Member
Instead of being confrontational, why not first have a quiet "one on one" conversation with the minister and try to put a human face on gun ownership? I've found that people like this often have an emotional reaction to the news headlines, and are apt to moderate their stance when shown the real facts about guns. If she persists, then would be the time to think about leaving that church.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
One thing I admire about the Mormons is that they are generally armed to the teeth.
AlexanderA
Member
The national United Methodist Church is all in for gun control. http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/gun-violence
However, Protestant denominations are not monoliths and local congregations might vary from the national stance.
.455_Hunter
Member
Let me guess- Presbyterian USA affiliated church?
TomJ
Contributing Member
Years ago we left a church we attended for many years for similar reasons. We had a wonderful pastor who retired and was replaced by someone who took shots (no pun intended) against AR's. The final straw was his sermon on why a Christian can't be against Obamacare at a time that my healthcare costs were skyrocketing. I spoke with one of the elders who told me they were flooded with calls and e-mails from members objecting to him preaching politics from the pulpit. It took a while but they replaced him. If you've been at this church for 15 years, it may be worth your time to talk to your elders, or your church's equivalent. Speaking for myself, we go to church to hear the Bible preached, not politics.
they can preach all they want about whatever they want. you cannot separate religion from your daily life and beliefs outside of church. It is one of the reasons religion can be such a powerful force, both for good and for bad.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Far to many churches are about money, infighting and the opinions of the leadership rather than religion.
There was a man that found himself on a deserted tropical island after a ship wreck.
After twenty five years alone on the island he was spotted from a passing plane.
When the rescue team arrived the man was thrilled but also a bit reluctant to leave the place that had been his home for so long.
He ask the rescuers to walk with him so he could show them what he had done in his time on the island.
They soon came to a small building. The man said it was his workshop. They were all impressed.
A little farther down the trail, they came to another structure. "This is my house" the man said. The rescuers were all amazed at what the man had built.
Next they came to a huge and truly incredible building. "This is my church" the man said proudly. They were all amazed.
The man said he was ready to go and started to walk back down the trail.
One of the rescuers saw the roof of another building farther down the trail. He ask the man what it was.
"Oh that" the man said indignantly. "That's the church I used to belong to"
There was a man that found himself on a deserted tropical island after a ship wreck.
After twenty five years alone on the island he was spotted from a passing plane.
When the rescue team arrived the man was thrilled but also a bit reluctant to leave the place that had been his home for so long.
He ask the rescuers to walk with him so he could show them what he had done in his time on the island.
They soon came to a small building. The man said it was his workshop. They were all impressed.
A little farther down the trail, they came to another structure. "This is my house" the man said. The rescuers were all amazed at what the man had built.
Next they came to a huge and truly incredible building. "This is my church" the man said proudly. They were all amazed.
The man said he was ready to go and started to walk back down the trail.
One of the rescuers saw the roof of another building farther down the trail. He ask the man what it was.
"Oh that" the man said indignantly. "That's the church I used to belong to"
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AlexanderA
Member
Leaving may be exactly the wrong thing to do. By leaving, you surrender the congregation to the antigunners by default. Check around to see how the other congregants feel about guns. You might be surprised that the consensus does not track the feelings of the minister. Then the minister can be reined in, or replaced.
What we're seeing is a pervasive polarization in the country. People are choosing up sides, not only about guns, but about the whole constellation of ideological issues. Then they select churches, schools, neighborhoods, and even whole states, that reflect their personal values. This is a terrible trend. If you want a civil war, this is how you get a civil war. Instead, let's try to build bridges.
What we're seeing is a pervasive polarization in the country. People are choosing up sides, not only about guns, but about the whole constellation of ideological issues. Then they select churches, schools, neighborhoods, and even whole states, that reflect their personal values. This is a terrible trend. If you want a civil war, this is how you get a civil war. Instead, let's try to build bridges.
George P
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These things are why I dislike ORGANIZED religion. I do not care what anyone's personal beliefs are, but the "bully pulpit" stuff I can do without. I was raised similar to Presbyterian, but real sick of the attempts at mind control and being told exactly what I was supposed to believe.
Good luck on your quest for a new church group.
Good luck on your quest for a new church group.
I totally agree, that's the way it should be.
OldFashioned
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This. I live in Idaho which is very Mormon most of their churches have a few set each week to carry no matter what. Also there are only 15 in my non Mormon church.. We all carry even the old ladys
Corpral_Agarn
Member
That's really too bad.
Church is usually good for folks.
Tough when they try to make members of their own congregation the bad guy.
I think you were right to walk out and not come back.
I would encourage you to contact the head honcho and tell them why you will not be back.
Church is usually good for folks.
Tough when they try to make members of their own congregation the bad guy.
I think you were right to walk out and not come back.
I would encourage you to contact the head honcho and tell them why you will not be back.
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