AZTOY
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Committee clears bills to ease gun restrictions
By HOWARD FISCHER
Capitol Media Services
02/07/2003
PHOENIX -- Arizonans would pay a stiffer fine for speeding than for illegally carrying a concealed weapon under the terms of legislation approved Thursday by a House panel.
Members of the House Judiciary Committee voted 6-5 to make the crime a petty offense punishable by no more than a $50 fine. Now those who do not have a permit can face up to six months in jail and a $1,200 fine.
What concerned police officers who testified against the bill even more was that current law allows them to not only take the person into custody but also take the weapon. Andy Swann of the Department of Public Safety said all his officers would be able to do under this plan is issue the offender a citation and send the person -- with the weapon -- down the road.
The legislation, HB 2321, was actually one of three measures dealing with gun rights approved Thursday by the panel.
By a 10-1 margin committee members also voted to allow those who can legally carry a weapon concealed in their home state to do the same while visiting Arizona. That approval of HB 2353 came over objections from police that most other states have less stringent training requirements -- and one requires none at all.
They also voted 8-4 to approve HCR 2025, a resolution declaring that gun shows "provide a safe, historical, valuable and indispensable community service" and that they should be "protected from those who would further regulate, encumber or eliminate them through a campaign of misinformation."
That move came over the objection of Mary Judge Ryan, chief deputy Pima County attorney, who said gun shows are a place where weapons can be purchased by those not otherwise legally entitled to have them, such as felons, juveniles and the mentally ill. Sellers at these shows need not conduct the same background checks on buyers that retailers must perform.
Ryan conceded, though, that personal sales, ranging from yard sales to newspaper ads, are not regulated either.
The fight over concealed weapons surrounds contentions by Rep. Randy Graf, R-Green Valley, that any laws prohibiting Arizonans from carrying guns any way they want violates the state constitution which specifies "the right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired."
History, however, is against Graf. Even Darren LaSorte, lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, acknowledged that it was illegal for Arizonans to carry concealed weapons until 1994. That law requires those seeking a permit to get at least 16 hours of training which includes everything from how to handle a gun to when deadly force can be used by a citizen.
Rep. Chuck Gray, R-Mesa, noted that any adult can carry a weapon in the open in this state without any training or background check, even those from other states. He said that police sometimes "go a little overboard with their enforcement of the law," catching otherwise innocent citizens.
Swann said police officers have broad discretion on when to cite someone. He said the law instead is used as a tool to apprehend a person who otherwise is acting suspiciously, such as "casing" a jewelry store, but has not committed any other crime.
"This is taking a legitimate tool away from law enforcement that we can use to prevent crime," echoed Eric Edwards, representing the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police.
That suggestion bothered Graf who called it a "slippery slope" to help police arrest people who only might be considering breaking the law -- and whose only offense is carrying a concealed weapon.
http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=59130
By HOWARD FISCHER
Capitol Media Services
02/07/2003
PHOENIX -- Arizonans would pay a stiffer fine for speeding than for illegally carrying a concealed weapon under the terms of legislation approved Thursday by a House panel.
Members of the House Judiciary Committee voted 6-5 to make the crime a petty offense punishable by no more than a $50 fine. Now those who do not have a permit can face up to six months in jail and a $1,200 fine.
What concerned police officers who testified against the bill even more was that current law allows them to not only take the person into custody but also take the weapon. Andy Swann of the Department of Public Safety said all his officers would be able to do under this plan is issue the offender a citation and send the person -- with the weapon -- down the road.
The legislation, HB 2321, was actually one of three measures dealing with gun rights approved Thursday by the panel.
By a 10-1 margin committee members also voted to allow those who can legally carry a weapon concealed in their home state to do the same while visiting Arizona. That approval of HB 2353 came over objections from police that most other states have less stringent training requirements -- and one requires none at all.
They also voted 8-4 to approve HCR 2025, a resolution declaring that gun shows "provide a safe, historical, valuable and indispensable community service" and that they should be "protected from those who would further regulate, encumber or eliminate them through a campaign of misinformation."
That move came over the objection of Mary Judge Ryan, chief deputy Pima County attorney, who said gun shows are a place where weapons can be purchased by those not otherwise legally entitled to have them, such as felons, juveniles and the mentally ill. Sellers at these shows need not conduct the same background checks on buyers that retailers must perform.
Ryan conceded, though, that personal sales, ranging from yard sales to newspaper ads, are not regulated either.
The fight over concealed weapons surrounds contentions by Rep. Randy Graf, R-Green Valley, that any laws prohibiting Arizonans from carrying guns any way they want violates the state constitution which specifies "the right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired."
History, however, is against Graf. Even Darren LaSorte, lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, acknowledged that it was illegal for Arizonans to carry concealed weapons until 1994. That law requires those seeking a permit to get at least 16 hours of training which includes everything from how to handle a gun to when deadly force can be used by a citizen.
Rep. Chuck Gray, R-Mesa, noted that any adult can carry a weapon in the open in this state without any training or background check, even those from other states. He said that police sometimes "go a little overboard with their enforcement of the law," catching otherwise innocent citizens.
Swann said police officers have broad discretion on when to cite someone. He said the law instead is used as a tool to apprehend a person who otherwise is acting suspiciously, such as "casing" a jewelry store, but has not committed any other crime.
"This is taking a legitimate tool away from law enforcement that we can use to prevent crime," echoed Eric Edwards, representing the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police.
That suggestion bothered Graf who called it a "slippery slope" to help police arrest people who only might be considering breaking the law -- and whose only offense is carrying a concealed weapon.
http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=59130
