I took a used rifle bought at a big outdoors store back on a warranty issue. They sent it off to a gunsmith for repair. They finally got it back this week and my wife went to pick it up. I didn't figure that they'd give it to her anyway, but they told her not only that I have to pick it up myself, but they have to run another NICS check on me. Not that it really matters to me, but is this actually a legal requirement? I am in West Virginia.
Background check to pick my gun up from gunsmith?
- Thread starter Ironclad
- Start date
- Status
NickEllis
Member
Not only do you not have to have another background check, your wife can also pick it up for repairs. I've no idea what they're talking about.
ETA: my bad. From § 478.124 Firearms transaction record:
Looks like your wife would have required a NICS, but not you.
ETA: my bad. From § 478.124 Firearms transaction record:
Looks like your wife would have required a NICS, but not you.
Last edited:
I know that's true in general, I was just wondering if there was a West Virginia state law about it or something. I just figured for their own liability reasons they would at least want to give it back to me instead of my wife, so I can't come back later and say it never got to me.
Kp321
Member
The person who left the gun for repair can pick it up, no questions. If anyone else picks it up it requires a 4473 and background check.
JRH6856
Member
As I understand it, if you take the gun in for repair or ship it directly to the gunsmith (which you can do because he has an FFL) there is no need for a NICS check. But if you take it to an FFL and he has to send it to another FFL, the transfers must be entered in the bound book of each FFL when possession changes. This breaks your "owenership" (for lask of a better term) and you must do a 4473 and NICS to receive the gun.
newfalguy101
Member
Nope.
The guy who dropped it of wont have to do a 4473 or background check as its being returned to the SAME person who dropped it off.
His wife would have to do a 4473 and background check since she did NOT drop it off.
NickEllis
Member
In the future just have them mail it directly back to you. No need to go through an FFL for repairs.
Arizona_Mike
Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 3,452
Unless there is a state issue he can pick it up without a Form 4473. She can pick it up for him with a Form 4473.
From the ATF web page:
From the ATF web page:
Right from the Form 4473 itself:
Mike
NickEllis
Member
never mind... answered my own question.
NavyLCDR
member
Your understanding would be in error. FFL #1 logs the firearm into their bound book as being received from Joe Snuffy (for the sole purpose of customization or repair). They log it out as going to FFL #2. FFL #2 logs the firearm into their bound book as being received from FFL #1. After the customization or repair, FFL #2 logs the gun out as being returned to FFL #1. FFL #1 logs the gun in as being received from FFL #2, and logs it out as returned to the original owner.
During an audit, the first set of entries for the gun can be matched to the second set of entries for the gun and it can be established that the gun was returned to the original owner it was received from, in compliance with 27 CFR 478.124.
My wife (at the time, now ex) took a handgun to a large retail chain store to return to the manufacturer for warranty repairs. We asked, "Is this going to be a problem that she does not have an ID card or driver's license to prove she is a resident of this state when the gun comes back?" They replied, "No problem at all, no paperwork is required to returnt the handgun to her." They sent it off to Taurus, who returned it to the store, who returned it to my ex wife, even though she could have actually bought the gun from them because she could not prove she was a resident of the state the gun store was in.
The shop is mistaken, except in the unlikely event there's some state law in the way.
It's perfectly OK to return gunsmithing guns to the owner directly without a 4473. In the shop where I worked we kept a separate bound book for gunsmithing jobs with two lines for each gun. One line was owner to gunsmith and the second was gunsmith to owner. This made is easy to track where a gunsmithing gun was and kept the transactions with no matching 4473 separate.
It's perfectly OK to return gunsmithing guns to the owner directly without a 4473. In the shop where I worked we kept a separate bound book for gunsmithing jobs with two lines for each gun. One line was owner to gunsmith and the second was gunsmith to owner. This made is easy to track where a gunsmithing gun was and kept the transactions with no matching 4473 separate.
NavyLCDR
member
In fact, woudn't it be illegal for the gun store to do a NICS check for a transaction that did not require one?
Carl N. Brown
Member
Could be a state thing....
Some states have a firearms background check that goes through the state police first for local wants and warrants then through the NICS.
Some states have a firearms background check that goes through the state police first for local wants and warrants then through the NICS.
Last edited:
Arizona_Mike
Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 3,452
I had a very confused shop owner do a NICS on an in-line muzzle loader once "because it has a serial number". :banghead:
It was Florida in the '90s so there was no state issue. He was just very confused.
Mike
NavyLCDR
member
The exact regulation you want is on page 63 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
[27 CFR] § 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
or licensed dealer shall not sell or
otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently,
of any firearm to any person, other
than another licensee, unless the licensee
records the transaction on a firearms
transaction record, Form 4473: Provided,
That a firearms transaction record, Form
4473, shall not be required to record the
disposition made of a firearm delivered to
a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or
customizing when such firearm or a replacement
firearm is returned to the person
from whom received.
Neo-Luddite
Member
While no law may obligate them to do so, some shops do this as a matter of policy and run an NCIS before returning the weapon. If this doesn't suit you, go elsewhere I guess. It's a liability issue in someone's mind it would seem.
Landgroove
Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2012
- Messages
- 114
In CA, if the gun is put on ...consignment.... it is DROS'ed when picked up if not sold.
dogtown tom
Member
Federal law requires a 4473/NICS when an unsold gun is returned to the owner from being consigned.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Hell I sent a gun to Smith and Wesson for repairs and they sent it back to my house via FedEx with nothing but a, "Its fixed. Sorry for your trouble."
Seems that would be much more risky than picking up in person.
Seems that would be much more risky than picking up in person.
Bubbles
Member
There is no state law in the way, the OP can go pick up his gun without a 4473/BGC.
Neo-Luddite
Member
heyjoe: Exactly: if the smith/FFL requires a NCIS on pickup as their policy they need to clarify that up front.
- Status
