Bad dies, bad brass or bad technique?

[Garage Dog]

Well, I've reloaded about 850 rounds of 38 sp in my Lee Classic turret with the Lee dies. My load is 158gr SWC and 3.2 grains of N320. I'm very happy with the load in my S&W 649.

All the brass I've reloaded is once fired or more. I clean with walnut shells and Meguiars polish for 4 hours and they come out nice and clean.

Here's my issue. Every operation works very smooth until I get to the Lee factory crimp die. It works smoothly with almost all brass except for CBC cases. With the CBC'c it "snags" on the up stroke, runs smooth for a second and "snags" again on the way out of the die. I even tried lubing the die with a small amount of Rem oil which didn't help much. The crimp is fine and the ammo shoot great, it just has the snag characteristic that I don't like. The CBC cases average around .002 longer then all the other cases, so is my issue one of needing to size the cases, adjust the crimp (which I've tried, didn't help much) clean the die, which I've also done or buy a more forgiving crimp die? Or maybe this is normal and I'm worrying about nothing.

 

[loadedround]

Have you compared your CBC case's length and wall thickness to your other cases? I have a suspicion you find the answer there.

 

[amandab]

your factory crimp die seems to be adjusted right for the CBC brass and a little light for your other brass.

 

[[email protected]]

First problem is using the fcd with lead bullets. It can size down the bullet losing the advantage of oversized lead bullets. Pull one of the bullets in the CBC and measure the diameter. Typical 38 special lead bullets run around .358 unless you size or order different size. Then pull one of the others and measure it. Also measure a few unloaded bullets to get an idea of what they run befor seating. Forom what you describe the die is resizing the buldge in the case that the bullet caused. It snags twice one for each bearing surface.

 

[ranger335v]

"The CBC cases average around .002 longer then all the other cases"

Back your expander up a tad when working with the CBC cases.

 

[Garage Dog]

Have you compared your CBC case's length and wall thickness to your other cases? I have a suspicion you find the answer there

Turns out that the CBC cases are thicker brass which causes the bullet to expand the case more than the other cases. Is there another die from another manufacturer that is more forgiving then the Lee factory crimp die?

Back your expander up a tad when working with the CBC cases.

I tried that but it didn't do much good and it didn't expand the case enough to sit the bullet without it tilting to the side.

From what you describe the die is resizing the bulge in the case that the bullet caused. It snags twice one for each bearing surface.

Yes, this is what seems to be happening but from the extra thickness of the brass. I'll try pulling a bullet as you suggest and see what it look like!

 

[rcmodel]

or buy a more forgiving crimp die?

Your Lee seater die is also a crimp die.
Use it.

There is no need to use the FCD for a revolver if the rounds will chamber after you seat & crimp in the seating die.

If they won't chamber, then you have a problem with bullet or case dimensions that the FCD is not going to fix without screwing the bullet dia up.

You have to understand folks reloaded perfectly good revolver ammo for about a hundred years before Lee invented the FCD.

In fact, many of us still do.

Even Lee's reloading manual tells you there is no need for the FCD if you are using the Lee three-die set to seat & crimp.

rc

 

[john16443]

I've run into this with CBC brass as well and this is why I toss them. There's enough Federal, PMC, Remmington and Winchester brass available as range pick up for me, I don't bother with anything else. It stays at the range or gets tossed into the recycle bucket. I know others don't care much for PMC or Remmington, but works fine for me.

 

[Garage Dog]

Your Lee seater die is also a crimp die.
Use it.

Yes, it does say that, but when I tried to adjust the crimp with the seating die it just set the bullet deeper in the case, in fact, both screwing just the top knob or screwing in the die, both had the same effect of seating the bullet deeper.

 

[Uniquedot]

when I tried to adjust the crimp with the seating die it just set the bullet deeper in the case, in fact, both screwing just the top knob or screwing in the die, both had the same effect of seating the bullet deeper.

Read and study the instructions that came with the die till you understand how to adjust the die properly. You have to back out the bullet seating stem before you attempt to crimp a round after turning the die body in. It doesn't take much fiddling to get your bullet at the correct depth and a good tight roll crimp in one operation. If you still want to do it in separate steps you can use a profile crimp die from Redding or use the LFCD that you already have. I shoot most pistol bullets as cast and seat/crimp in the same operation, but when i run into thick cases that don't allow the rounds to freely chamber, i simply run those rounds through the LFCD or a taper crimp die and keep them segregated.

 

[Seedtick]

You can take the resizing ring out of the FCD.

I took one out of a 45 acp die just last week. Well, I tried to take it out.....I ended up cutting around 1/8" off the end of the die with my dremel. Sucker came right out then. You can probably just drive it out of a .38 die but I couldn't get enough of a bite on the carbide ring with a punch to do any good. :banghead:

I was setting up to load some acp rounds for a revolver and kept having those "snags" you were talking about. All I wanted was just a little taper crimp and now that's all I get. I ain't squishing Brad's bullets down to small anymore.

That is another option????

Seedtick

 

[[email protected]]

The instructions on how to set up the dies that comes with some lees dies dont do a good job explaining how to set up the crimp/seater die with crimp. If memory serves me correct is says somthing like screw the die out 3 turns from shell holder, then set your bullet depth and then screw the die in to adjust crimp. It leaves out the part about backing out the seater stem before turning in the die.
I mostly shoot lead in 38 so I dont use all of the fcd parts. You can take a flared case and screw the seater die in until the crimp ring touches the case and back it out a hair. Then seat your bullet to depth. Back out the seated plug adjust crimp and then screw the seater plug in until it touches the bullet with the ram raised.
I seat and crimp in seperate steps but I only use the seated to seat the bullet. I have the lee universal expander die that goes into station one. next is the hornady powder measure. Next a hornady powder cop die. Next bullet seater die. The final step is the crimp operation. I have the internals removed from my expander die and replaced with the internals of the lfc die. This allows me to apply the crimp, but the powder through expander dies does not have the carbide sizer ring that resizes the case. I have the five station Hornady LNL. I also resize and deprime on a single stage press. I tumble after depriming and triming

 

[Uniquedot]

The instructions on how to set up the dies that comes with some lees dies dont do a good job explaining how to set up the crimp/seater die with crimp. If memory serves me correct is says somthing like screw the die out 3 turns from shell holder, then set your bullet depth and then screw the die in to adjust crimp.

When i read your response i thought for sure you were mistaken. I thought "there is no way they would leave that important info out!" I got an instruction sheet from one of my lee die sets...and as you said, it does not explain the fact that you have to back out the seating plug! That can be really confusing to a new reloader. They really need to fix that portion of their instructions, but i guess they want everyone to purchase their FCD.