Bad info out there!

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ZVP

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I spent most of the afternoon reading and trying to decipher my way hrough the swarm of terrible info on long ramnge. 20 yard (???)'shooting and scope and pellet performances.
Yes pellet size, Head shape and size, lead composition pand speed have lots to do to control accuracy and performance
Yes scope magnification controls much of a rifles performance as range increases

You don't need or want a variable 20x magnification scope for 10m less is always more stables 4 is nearly too much fo 10m !
I rarely use ,ore than 4X even at 80 yards simply for a stable place to put my p let one needs to see most if not all the animal too locate vitals. Toommuch scope magnification looks pretty but dosen't help find the heart or brain...
Targetsalso benifit from more stability Looking for that center spot

Yes I too madethe big magnification mistake in days gone by. W I learned from my mistak s and now preach about the need to see clearly ! So much dpnds on your ammo
All points discussed above factor in on stable, accurate shooting
A stable pellet carries th farth st with the most reliablity
Your entir shooting experi nice will be enhnsed and naturally become more relaxing and more fun!
I've been shooting airguns since 1959 at least and I have to admit that I have'nt stopped lea ning every shot !
Think about every shot or string and you'll see what I mean

This airgun forum is a great place because you get nearly up to the minute info
If owe'd only had this back when.... !
Used to be you'drarely iun into anyone who would even admit to be hung up on "Pellet guns".
 
sir- you are full of poop... and just added to "bad information"- higher magnification does not cause the wobble you see ... all guns do it... you can just see it more clearly with higher magnification... if higher magnification was such a bad thing and the cause of inaccurate shooting at close range the top field gun competitors / airgun benchrest and airgun silhouette shooters would not be using the higher magnification scopes.Now if you enjoy your low power scopes more because it causes you less stress etc= GREAT! have fun!
 
sir- you are full of poop... and just added to "bad information"- higher magnification does not cause the wobble you see ... all guns do it... you can just see it more clearly with higher magnification... if higher magnification was such a bad thing and the cause of inaccurate shooting at close range the top field gun competitors / airgun benchrest and airgun silhouette shooters would not be using the higher magnification scopes.Now if you enjoy your low power scopes more because it causes you less stress etc= GREAT! have fun!

Agree higher magnification does not "cause" it magnifies DUH your hand movements.

A few things to remember on scopes, and I am a bit of a scope snob. On a "good" scope things will be more "clear" at 16x then they will be on an "ok" scope at 30x.

IMHO and this really goes so true in the air gun world, people are a little....well....stupid. They will buy a $2-3000 rifle then put an OK scope on it, and IMHO Leupold is just OK. You just shelled out the money for a top of the line rifle then you put a middle of the road scope on it, that gun needs Swarovski, I don't see the point in spending top $$ for a top tier rifle then put a middle of the road glass on it....just drives me batty.

And there is a difference, take it out use it and you will go I did not think the world looked this good.
 
OK "Poop", you are just the type I was Talking about...
 
higher magnification does not cause the wobble you see ... all guns do it... you can just see it more clearly with higher magnification...

Not quite... But kinda... Seeing the wobble causes over-correction by the shooter. The benchrest guys don't wobble because... well... they don't wobble. The folks using the higher magnifications who shoot with a little less support have practiced more than I have and have murdered their over-correction tendencies. So, yes, higher magnification does cause wobble. And yet no, the higher magnification does not cause the wobble.
 
Is this the same ZVP from the Diana forum years ago?
Wwho wants to
What is your real. Name???
There is aa long story,I am the Origonal who ?concieved and developed the DWC, and was chosen by ny old friend Dr. Robert Beeman to be the editor of the Diana section of The Bluebook of Airgun Values and to assemble a staff of experts to ensure as much historical fact as possible . A monumental effort and I had a wonderful Staff to Assisi in the task.
ZVP is my aincent Handle in honor to my Mothers homeland and to honor the CZ ZVP air pidstol which,, you'll have to agree was a strong,beautifully engineered Pistol.
As far as who also used the Handle involves ownership,regerstation, and management of the DWC.
I still use it occasionally.
Satisfied?
Now please tell me something about yourself.
Please though, let's leave name calling And vulgarities out.
OK?
I am always interested and happy to meet other airgunners and totry to answer ANY airgun related questions.
I'd love to discuss this topic farther with you!!! Shooting at long range is a. Study I have spent decades on.h I've done it with Match guns to my apes Diana 52 and 36, both In .22.

ZVP
 
Wwho wants to
What is your real. Name???
There is aa long story,I am the Origonal who ?concieved and developed the DWC, and was chosen by ny old friend Dr. Robert Beeman to be the editor of the Diana section of The Bluebook of Airgun Values and to assemble a staff of experts to ensure as much historical fact as possible . A monumental effort and I had a wonderful Staff to Assisi in the task.
ZVP is my aincent Handle in honor to my Mothers homeland and to honor the CZ ZVP air pidstol which,, you'll have to agree was a strong,beautifully engineered Pistol.
As far as who also used the Handle involves ownership,regerstation, and management of the DWC.
I still use it occasionally.
Satisfied?
Now please tell me something about yourself.
Please though, let's leave name calling And vulgarities out.
OK?
I am always interested and happy to meet other airgunners and totry to answer ANY airgun related questions.
I'd love to discuss this topic farther with you!!! Shooting at long range is a. Study I have spent decades on.h I've done it with Match guns to my apes Diana 52 and 36, both In .22.

ZVP

I was a member of the Diana Forum many years ago. If you were the owner at the time, I remember you sent me a very nice email welcoming be to the forum. This was I guess around 12 years ago. Well before the Owner "Redfeather". You might remember me, as I was a good friend with "MZ" (Marcel) who custom tuned all my rifles. By the way, still have my first Diana MDL34. And still shooting just as lovely as ever. If this is not you, then ok. If so, just wanted to say hello and enjoyed the forum very much in those days.
 
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I was a member of the Diana Forum many years ago. If you were the owner at the time, I remember you sent me a very nice email welcoming be to the forum. This was I guess around 12 years ago. Well before the Owner "Redfeather". You might remember me, as I was a good friend with "MZ" (Marcel) who custom tuned all my rifles. By the way, still have my first Diana MDL34. And still shooting just as lovely as ever. If this is not you, then ok. If so, just wanted to say hello and enjoyed the forum very much in those days.

Jen
Yea it's me! I invented the Forum
The name is a sort of twist on Star Trek Borg collective
I have.been really ill. Lost a leg from infection and had
It's of circulation issuesmuch hospitilasitipn, now God threw another one at me and I'm goinngb blind from Maculat degeneration lost vision on leftAnd right going fast!
Forum was too much so I sold it to the postman he somehow handed it to Red Feather(???) I was away a long time and don't know much history. Why did you leave?
I got really heavily into black powder revolvers a
So my .38's .
I bought -, S&W Chief also A Model 10HB Military. And Police, also a real sweet Ruger .357 stainless 4" Vaquero.
I also built a riot Shotgun based on a Mosberg Pump chopped and crowned the 30 " bbl down to 18 1\2" . I redid the recover 2tone shiney and Matt as needed salso took much stain off the wood . The base gunis a westernfield from wards I think. The woodwork is unusual and that's why I chose it. 12 ga and it patterns great!
I still need to shorten the stock an inch cause it is too long for wheelchair use.
Before my amputation, I bought a really sweet 20 ga SxS, 26" barreled,Upland gun English cut stock and it fits me like a glove! It's the first double that EVER shot to POA for me! Someday I'll leave this chair and maybe enjoy the lovely thing! For now just holding it and keeping it stoked with Buckshot for the bad guys!
Yea wish I had more time to shoot em all!
I r ally love the BP revolvers! You get all the fun of bullet testing plus hands on reloading(I measure every chamber) and unlike semi-auto pistols you get to relax and not spray $50 worth of lead downrange in 20 minutes! You can fondle your guns a lot(just like airgunning) and simply enjoy shooting.? It all started with my Clubs Cowboy action shooting too expensive for my limited retirement money) and even though I had a Single Six22 I bought my Vaquero. I got hooked on slowing down. The Vaquero developed issues and had to go to Ruger for warranty work. While awaiting it's return, I decided to buy a BP revolver... one thing leads to the next and now I have 6 BP revolvers!
I can understand Hickock's liking the .36 Navy's haven't shot anyone yet but I understand the rest of his choices for the Navy! Historically they seemed to be very good manstoppers (re: Civil War Records). Not my first choice but I also would'nt hesitatate using one!
The .38 Specials? Well they servedFBI, Police, and Military Pilots
for decades and didn't make a bad showing in the great Miami Shootout. Ya have to throw some lead weight when shooting smokeless cartrige loads... I see the thought behind the 9mm for Police uses as the bad guys have big magazines but they don't seem to "stop" asreliably as the 38 Specials do.
Enough of my rambling
Be safe old buddy
Dave
 
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ZVP, so glad to hear you have still been active in the world of shooting sports for all these years. I do remember you had many bouts of illness even back them. I always appreciated you great wisdom on Airguns as well as powder burners. And especially your love for the ZVP. I do remember wen the Postman Warren took over then Redfeather. I guess I left the forum as it was just not the same after you were gone. You bring back some fine memories. Glad to see you hanging in there. I know you have been through a lot. You've got some Hard Bark on ya for sure.
You be safe as well and thanks for the memories.
 
OK "Poop", you are just the type I was Talking about...

sorry young man.. kind sir but it does not make your information on scope magnification factual... the human body/eyes may have a harder time freehand not seeing the wobbling as much at higher magnification but the scope is not causing it, in this case you my friend are spreading disinformation.Now you may have wanted to say it is easier for some to shoot or even most to shoot lower magnification scopes on guns for some applications and that would be correct. Go enjoy shooting your guns! btw its not fair to throw the old,sick n one legged card in there...now I feel bad correcting your info :( get well as you can soon!
 
Not quite... But kinda... Seeing the wobble causes over-correction by the shooter. The benchrest guys don't wobble because... well... they don't wobble. The folks using the higher magnifications who shoot with a little less support have practiced more than I have and have murdered their over-correction tendencies. So, yes, higher magnification does cause wobble. And yet no, the higher magnification does not cause the wobble.

No....you are missing the boat here.

The key word here is CAUSE. A high mag scope does not CAUSE your body to do anything.....unless it is different in weight, position. If it is more heavy, that extra weight will CAUSE your muscles to work harder. And you body will likely not hold it the same way. There is a post on here about a kid that plays football learning rimfire shooting off hand, he got tired quickly. He is a strong big kid by the post, but the muscles are not ready for that type of workout.

The mag of the scope will not CAUSE you to wobble....it will amplify your view of your movements...but just the power of the scope will not cause anything.....

Now the over correct thing you brought up, again not caused by the scope but by you the shooter, trying to keep it calm....and I could see you point for CAUSING an over correction to a wobble, or circle but to cause the wobble in the first place nope.

I talked to an olympic air gun shooter, and she said that even with all the gear, they still move....you are human your body is never perfectly still, you can train it to be more still, but rock of gibraltar still not going to happen. What those world class shooters do is calm themselves down to the point that the movements are very small and controlled, they take the shot right at the perfect moment....huge skill, tallent, and yes a real athlete.

The guys I find amazing are thost biathlon guys....all that ski stuff, heart rate to the moon then they have to calm to take the shots.
 
First, howdy Paul yes, I absolutely remember all our discussions! Great to hear from ALL my old friends!
Thankyou.
Back to Scopes and shooting yproblems.
Man what a mistake I made not Proofing that post. I apologize guys!
What I should have said is that the correct relationship of your pupil and the center of the scoope causes a shift in centering thecrosshhairs . What appears is a shifting and changing picture of everything you can't see anywhere correctly!
I misspoke about"wobble" as that is merely a muscle reaction
No one can hold a gun motionless what you need to know is when to let the shot off within your range off natural body movementsu also ne d to remember to follow through holding the best sight picture you have for a moment think of it as a moment that it takes for the Pell to accelerate down the barrel. Trust me, the Pell has nalready left town but it's just a mental trick to help yoiu steady yourself. It all figures in to train your body.
Let me try and explain it this way.
We like to imagine guns being able to stack all shots atop each other Unfortunately nor so. In reality the best combos only shoot near each other couple that with natural muscle twitches and we get a lot of unwanted movement.
The mind tells a couple things, more magnification helps you see better but in reality you try to compensate for all movements and it just gets worse! You also see misses and unconscious you try to correct for all.
In fact slight reduction in magnification makes the crosshairs settle down! You also better see the POA and surrounding areas in order to get a better view of a critters vitals location or betterX ring definition. You also don't fool your mind into trying to cotrrect for your last miss...
Lowering magnification slightly makes sense here too. All in all you benifiy with a more solid sight picture.
I didn't mean to downplay the needs for high magnification!!! Sorry it read that way, OK?
Long ranges and small targets call for high powers. OK? That's why they make powerful Scopes.
I strive to find a happy medium in my pictture and experiment a lot. All in an attempt to be the most consistant as I can.
I hope these comments help you also! I strive to pass along all tips to everyone to help us all my shoot better.
Please forgive ever meant to confuse, OK?my errors in the previous post OK?
Thanks for reading.
ZVP


.
 
Parallax error has been the downfall of more than one shooter, that's for sure! A good cheek weld helps but there's more to it than just that.
 
ZVP noo offence but there are applications where high power-short range and small targets are the norm and the high power benefits one... That is why we have so many choices. Yes many use the wrong choices or go against the norm for thesport or follow norms for one application in another.Scopes are often individual choices ultimately.- like guns there are many do it all scopes but the reality is we need many for differentspecialized uses... depending on the game. Keep Shootin n fighting ZVP- well not your eye out anyhow :)
 
ZVP noo offence but there are applications where high power-short range and small targets are the norm and the high power benefits one... That is why we have so many choices. Yes many use the wrong choices or go against the norm for thesport or follow norms for one application in another.Scopes are often individual choices ultimately.- like guns there are many do it all scopes but the reality is we need many for differentspecialized uses... depending on the game. Keep Shootin n fighting ZVP- well not your eye out anyhow :)

I agree individual needs and preferences dictate your scope choice.
Glad to b able here to share with you all,what works for me! Hope it helped.
Happy holidays.
Dave
 
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An eye clinic in Tallahassee gives me a shot in my right eye, every two months, to halt the macular degeneration which otherwise would cause blindness. Southern Vitreoretinal. Dr. Newell.
 
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