Ball Powders may be hard to ignite

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Slamfire

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This weekend I took to the range two recent acquistions. One was a well worn 586 in 357 and the other a 95% Colt Trooper Mk III in 357 Mag.

The weather was cold there were infact snow flakes in the air, it was overcast and the wind was blowing. The ammunition had been overnight in the bed of the truck.

I had misfires, no hangfires, and I had squibs with a load I tested in 103 F weather. I had rounds that were anywhere between full power and squib. My load was with a 158 LRN with 12.0 grains AA#9. I used WSP primers. Below is my test data, 12.0 grains AA#9 was close to my “reference” load of 13.5 grs 2400, so that’s what I used.

AA#9 is a very fine ball powder. It shot just fine in warm weather.

One round left a bullet in the throat of the 586, another round left a bullet lodged between the cylinder of the Colt and the throat.

Luckily I had a long shafted screwdriver and was able to knock the lead bullets out and continue shooting.

The bullet stuck in the 586 throat had a column of ball powder behind it. Ball powder was all over the mechanism, I had to get a paper towel and wipe it out from under the extractor star, cylinder recess.

Below is the case that was fired in the Colt. As you can see the bullet was shoved back in the case.

I may have had light primer strikes with the 586, but as you can see from the primer on the Colt case, I had deep primer indentations. I have looked at the fring pin protrusion with the 586, and that looks to be good. It really sticks out.

So, heck if I know. It could be that ball powders are hard to ignite, or it could be sloppy practices on my part. I loaded this ammunition on a Dillion 550B over a couple of years ago. Out of 100 rounds, these were the only two that stuck in the barrel, but I did have squib rounds.

Shot well, even out to 50 yards. The squib loads barely rocked the gong.


Smith & Wesson M27-2 6.5” barrel

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F
Ave Vel = 1273
Std Dev = 44.03
ES = 176.7
High = 1372
Low = 1195
N = 30

Very accurate.

158 LRN 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F
Ave Vel = 1278
Std Dev = 34.98
ES = 117.4
High = 1344
Low = 1226
N = 27
Accurate little or no leading

158 LRN 12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F
Ave Vel = 1348
Std Dev = 34.16
ES = 134.7
High = 1386
Low = 1251
N = 25
Very Accurate no leading

Bulletlodgedinthroat158L120AA9WSP.jpg

BulletLodgedinthroatcartridge158L12.jpg

BulletLodgedinthroat158L12AA9WSRCol.jpg
 
My load was with a 158 LRN with 12.0 grains AA#9. I used WSP primers.
Yes ball powders are harder to ignite.... especially so at colder temperatures. You should be using a hotter primer such as the WSPM primer with that combination of 357 Mag and AA#9 not the WSP primer.
 
Interesting. I have been shooting AA #9 in .44 Mag for year in all weather. Not below freezing though.
 
Took the same batch of ammunition to the range Sunday. Temperatures were in the low 50's. Ammunition had been in the back of the truck all night.

Took one of the previous revolvers, this M586 and shot the same loads of 158 grain L, 12.0 grains AA#9 WSP.

Single action every shot was normal. No squibs, no hangfires, no problems. I did have two misfires double action, both of which ignited when fired single action.

I think I need a new stiffer mainspring in this revolver.

But what a difference in ignition and burn 15 degrees makes with a ball powder.


M586.jpg
 
Slamfire, did you check the strain screw? Might have backed out a bit; my M10 misfires on DA with 1/4 turn out, so I keep them all fully tight. I use Loctite on the 686 to keep it snug.
 
I think I need a new stiffer mainspring in this revolver.
Did you check the strain screw ?
Are you sure all of the primers were fully seated ?
 
Did you check the strain screw ?

Yes. It is as tight as I can get it without stripping out the screw head.

I will just have to dig around the parts box and determine if I have an extra. This pistol had an action job, the internal parts have been highly polished. It is possible that the spring was altered.

But, does not change the fact that single action ignition was normal in 50's F weather, but not in 40's F weather.
 
Normal in 50 degrees, or just "good enough"?

One thing I have found out is that AA #9 doesn't download in .357 as well as it does in .44 Mag. Found that out very recently.

How do you like the Trooper Mk III? I love my Troopers. AC
 
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Could have been an insufficient crimp problem also. Not holding the bullet long enough for the powder to get burning good. Especially if the brass wasn't all trimmed to the same length. Just a thought.

All the Best,
D. White
 
One thing I have found out is that AA #9 doesn't download in .357
I've had a interesting experience with AA#9 loading 158gr XTPs with CCI 500 primers, with loads in the 12.5gr range showed flat and cratered primers, and sticky shell extraction. When loaded above 13.2gr the primers looked normal and the shells extracted with ease. I settled at 13.9gr for a Ruger Sec. Six.
 
Normal ignition as best as I can tell without a chronograph. Sound normal, recoil normal, muzzle blast normal, boom to bang on target normal. It rained cats and dogs this sunday, any chronograph would have been blown off its tripod.


How do you like the Trooper Mk III? I love my Troopers. AC

Well, I only have one. Single action is excellent, it is accurate, and I am not going to shoot it as much as the 586, so I won't wear the finish.

ColtTrooperleftsideDSCN0767-1.jpg
 
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