Baltimore Police are Under-Reporting Crime, as a Matter of Policy!!

[LawDog]

we're the most violent state in the union outside Louisiana,

New Orleans and it's corrupt PD artificially raised Louisana's violent crime rate, if I remember correctly.

Now, I'm starting to get a whiff of corruption from Baltimore PD.

I gotta wonder:

Does police corruption lead to more violent cities, or do violent cities lead to corrupt police? Chicken or the egg?

Glad I don't work out that way.

LawDog

 

[Waitone]

The latest out of Charlotte would be laughable if it weren't so serious. Murders up 40% in one year. Six child murders in 6 weeks. Gang membership up 50% in one year yet the solution to the obvious problem is community service. Governments have an inherent incentive to lie about their own performance.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I think this is standard proceedure in many localities- St Louis had a big to do last year about under reporting sex crimes- Reports were "lost" and somehow "fell through the cracks"- Has it been corrected?- Your guess is as good as mine- The Nazi Propaganda Ministry would be proud-

 

[pcf]

I think this is standard proceedure in many localities- St Louis had a big to do last year about under reporting sex crimes- Reports were "lost" and somehow "fell through the cracks"- Has it been corrected?- Your guess is as good as mine- The Nazi Propaganda Ministry would be proud-

Sex crimes are by far and away the easiest crimes to under report. If one wants to file a report about a sex crime all they have to do is go to a local precinct, tell the desk sergeant, get the form, and fill out the report. If that isn't the the most humiliating experience ever, it comes in at number two.

 

[Hypnogator]

Not really news, here. I got interviewed a few years ago by the Philadelphia Inquirer for a story they were doing on Philly police underreporting rapes and sex crimes. Mostly about clear attempted rapes being reported as simple assaults, or just being s**tcanned altogether. Can't have the public (especially the tourists) think things are dangerous here, can we?

 

[CrazyIrishman]

Right now on channel 11 in Baltimore they are talking about the discrepancy of crime numbers and reports,etc...


Its MOST interesting!

 

[Coronach]

Read the story. You're wrong. When the police don't take reports when people are shot, robbed, etc. that is indeed novel. It's also criminal.

You misunderstand my point. I'm saying that, if true, this has probably been going on for some time, with the commisioner and/or incumbent mayor moving the numbers in their favor and/or the challenger accusing him of doing the same. It's very hard to get a good idea of what is going on when both parties have axes to grind and the facts themselves are in dispute. I'm not dismissing the impropriety of the suppression of crime data, if it occurred. However, having a politician lobbing bombs and producing a few (possibly isolated) cases does not prove, as is implied by the thread title, a conspiracy to under or over-report crimes.

Could this be happening? Sure, but it really makes me scratch my head and wonder why. The benefit to the mayor is obvious, but the benefit to the police department is less so. Quid pro quo arrangements like "you keep the numbers down and good things will happen to your budget" could exist, but keeping them hush-hush is very problematic. If I were looking to tinker with the numbers, I'd try to do it well above the level of street cop and dispatch- that requires a lot of co-conspirators.

"Relating" runs is a must-do for the police. Failure to do this will result in artificially inflated numbers. The run in question (relating an agg assault to a robbery) is curious, but hardly impossible. Many, many times we get a shots-fired call, then a robbery call, and a long while later you have someone finally decide that the hole in his leg is not going to heal itself, so he calls 911. So, do you have 1 shots-fired, 1 robbery, and 1 shooting? Probably not- it's pne incident. You probably have one entry into NIBRS or UCR or whatever reporting method you're using, provided you can link them all up logically. It sounds like they're saying the cops didn't do that in the run in question. However, you'd have to look at the report itself to see how it was (or wasn't) linked, and they are a weebit sketchy on the details.

Linking incidents, if done properly is not suppression of crime statistics. Note the caveat- like anything else, you have to do it properly. For instance, if the robbery report actually makes no mention of the guy who was shot-at, that's an error (at the very least). However, you'd have to read the robbery report to see.

As to the rest, it is very common for the police to not take reports when the so-called victims are uncooperative. While this might seem like suppression of crime data (and it probably goes against dept. policy), it is often less cut and dried than one might think. If you show up and someone is injured, but no one wants help from the poh-leece, it is, at the very least, unclear what report you should take. Was it a robbery? Was it an assault? Domestic? What happened? Were weapons used? If so, what weapons? Is this guy the victim, or merely the loser out of a mutual assault? Not taking the report is probably no worse for statistics than taking the wrong one, even though most PDs have the policy of taking what limited info you have and filing the report with it.

In truth, reading over the incidents in that article, it sounds like the cops were being lazy more than anything else and the Dept. needs to re-iterate its report-taking policy to them.

Mike

 

[Geno]

I See the Same Warping-of-"Facts" at the College Where I am a Full-time Professor.

The statistics are so stinking warped on our campus that it's shocking. Forget that "Campus Security" is non-working oxymoron, it's truly dangerous. People walk around with a false sense of "security"

Last year a student was beaten nearly to death with a tire iron and other weapons (by a group of about 13). The "security officers" stood around and did NOTHING! The group left campus after being satisfied the victim had learned his lesson. Ten minutes later, they returned for round 2 of the lesson--probably thought the victim's newly acquired brain injury would have led to short-term memory problems and that they better repeat so he would either remember, or be certain to forget. Round 2, the "campus security" did NOTHING! When the Dir. of Student Housing reported this (she was one of my grad. students) she was fired for "insubordination"!?

Yet, consider the facts. In spite of this arguably know or alter information, we on Christian campuses can NOT carry a weapon. I ask "Why the He(cK) not!?!?!?!?!?" If campus insecurity can't protect me, or won't, at least give me a waiver to carry!

Anyone, and I mean ANYONE (politician, law enforcement, clerical, other) who is directly involved or even implicit with perpetuating the misrepresentation of the statistics should be prosecuted, and if convicted, fired!

But think about it, if the politicos can under-report crime, they can say, "See--no mo' bad-guys--'ou don't need no big--bad guns! God be good sheeple".

Doc2005

 

[RealGun]

Cue LawDog and RealGun in 5... 4... 3...

I'm sure this was all due to the politicos in Baltimore and nothing to do with the actual police force...

Yeah, really. This article and thread are based upon a single fact ("but heard the clips on WHFS of him saying that not taking reports when complainants aren’t overly cooperative became SOP"). Never mind examining what it means when someone is not "overly cooperative" and whether that becomes a report to be treated seriously.

 

[Spiphel Rike]

Yet, consider the facts. In spite of this arguably know or alter information, we on Christian campuses can NOT carry a weapon. I ask "Why the He(cK) not!?!?!?!?!?" If campus insecurity can't protect me, or won't, at least give me a waiver to carry!
Doc2005

carry anyway? concealed means concealed. Consider an alternative to a firearm, improvise, adapt and overcome. Your campus security does sound atrocious though, what happened with that whole incident? were there convictions or anything?

If I was you, and I'm not, but if I was, i'd do something to tick off those campus cops for being such useless failures of human beings.

 

[Helmetcase]

Yeah, really. This article and thread are based upon a single fact ("but heard the clips on WHFS of him saying that not taking reports when complainants aren’t overly cooperative became SOP"). Never mind examining what it means when someone is not "overly cooperative" and whether that is a report to be treated seriously.

Anyone looking at this can see that it's a real problem, and it's not just fluff made up by some overzealous talk show host. It's happening. It's real. And its a clear indication of what happens when politics gets put before fighting crime and giving citizens the protection they deserve. Couple that with a regime that doesn't allow us the right to protect ourselves, and you've got a real problem. Read the WBAL report. Watch the clips of Police Commissoner Hamm admitting that this was SOP. I really take offense to the idea that this is just some radio host cooked up notion. We have the PC on camera. We have redundant coverage from major media outlets. Even the perpetrators here don't deny it its happening.

 

[Coronach]

I must have missed this. Where is the commissioner admitting that this is happening, "as a matter of policy" as was implied? I've read the links, and I see a combination of three things:

1. Some lazy cops who don't want to take a burglary report. As unfortunate and wrong as this is, it is hardly a conspiracy and hardly unique to Bawlmer.

2. Questioning the policy of "linking" or "duplication" of incidents, which is necessary if done properly but a convenient way to be lazy if it's not.

3. An overzealous politician in search of an issue, who has latched onto #1 and #2 and is running with it.

That's a long way from being a conspiracy to under-report crime. The probable truth is bad enough; sounds like BPD needs to have a little roll call lecture about how you will be taking each and every appropriate report, on pain of discipline.

Mike

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Total Violent Crime per 100,000 population per Annum
based on the prelimary FBI crime report for 2004.

Baltimore: 1839 per 100,000

US average for cities over 10,000 pop.: 239

This makes Baltimore the most dangerous city over 500,000 population.

And they are going to cure this by changing reporting?????

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I am sure that there is a heck of alot of political pressure to undereport crime in baltimore from everyone involved at the high level. Citizens there are tired of the chronic and incessant intensity of violent crime in their neighborhoods. But like the ostrich that buries it's head in the sand this democratic stronghold will never solve it through the use of CCW, instead their answer is to throw more money at it, maybe pass a few more antigun laws and hope that the problem goes away by itself. It is a vicious circle. It is still good advise for anyone going through Baltimore stay out of the bad neighborhoods but crime has been spreading out from the city for years now and there is no end in sight.

 

[Helmetcase]

I must have missed this. Where is the commissioner admitting that this is happening, "as a matter of policy" as was implied? I've read the links, and I see a combination of three things:

You're clearly not reading any of the links provided, or watching any of the video clips provided, are you? Not trying to be snooty, but that's EXACTLY what's happened. Hamm has clearly stated that in various instances where reports CLEARLY should have been filed that his officers aren't filing them, and he supports this practice.

I appreciate healthy skepticism...but what you and some others are offering here is uninformed skepticism.

1. Some lazy cops who don't want to take a burglary report. As unfortunate and wrong as this is, it is hardly a conspiracy and hardly unique to Bawlmer.

It's not just burglarly. We're talking about cops taking deliberate efforts to make it so shootings and violent crimes don't make it onto the ledgers, and doing it with the blessing--on goddamn TV cameras no less--of their superiors.

That's a big deal. And no, that's not happening everywhere.

 

[Coronach]

Humor me. Quote the text from the link where he does this. And no, I did not watch the video. My computer has been buggy of late with vids. If this is only to be found in the video, and I have to wade through to find it, I will. However, if you can point me to a text quote, please do. I thought I read all of them.

For the record, I am skeptical that they're doing it as a matter of policy, at the street cop level. I'm not skeptical that you have a general tendency to file as little paper as possible, in contravention of police policy. This is, as I have said, not unique to the land of crab cakes. It is also unfortunate, and wrong, as is lethargy in any branch of government. But it is also not a conspiracy nor, as implied, a matter of policy.

I am also not skeptical that police commissioners and anyone on up in the food chain might do what they can statistically to massage the crime stats. But to do it at the street-cop level would be very tough. You cannot tell me that everyone in BPD loves the commissioner and the mayor enough to play ball with this. All it would take is one anonymous leak to the media, and it would be all over.

Mike

 

[Helmetcase]

Humor me. Quote the text from the link where he does this.

I'll go you one better, here's from today's newstory on this (as you can imagine, this is THE story in Baltimore re: the O'Malley campaign and crime in the city).

In the I-Team's report broadcast on Monday, Baltimore City Police Commissioner Leonard Hamm defended his officers' decisions to write off a report of assault in the city's Cherry Hill neighborhood. Hamm said the victims would not cooperate.

At the time, the two victims were in a hospital, one under treatment for what a nurse described as a gunshot wound and the other for what an officer described as a beating injury.

Hamm said the way that incident was handled was not isolated.

"So, let me clear about this, if your officers get there and the victims don't want to cooperate, the officers have the right to simply say this is unfounded?" Miller asked the commissioner.

"In some cases, yes," Hamm responded.

Let's be clear on what he's saying--we're not recording that a crime occured because we didn't like the cooperation provided by the victims. And that, my friends, is a problem. It doesn't even take into account the scads of stories of assaults and burglaries where the victims DID want to cooperate and the PD still didn't take reports.

If people don't cooperate it probably does make prosecution difficult. That DOES NOT mean a crime didn't happen or that the PD doesn't have to discharge their duty. It DOES mean that, since even PC Hamm admits this isn't an isolated practice, that crimes are happening that aren't being reported--which doesn't do much for dissuading criminals, does it?

Even today I had someone post on my website about a friend getting pistol whipped and the cops refusing to take a report. If it were one person here or there...we might be able to brush it off. But there's been a constant deluge of people complaining about this, and now we have PC Hamm admitting that this, in fact, is going on. And he did it on camera. (The video is attached to one of the links I think).

I don't think you can let the commanders and leadership off the hook on this. Either they didn't know this was happening and are derelict (which doesn't seem to be the case), or they knew it was going on, and probably encouraged or at least accepted this practice for political gain. Either one is a fireable offense.

Coronach, I appreciate your skepticism, but if you were in Baltimore hearing the numerous cases of this happening and watching our PC and Mayor more or less confessing that it happens on camera, that skepticism would fade. Quickly.

For the record, I am skeptical that they're doing it as a matter of policy, at the street cop level.

That's probably true; I'll bet there are members of the rank and file who actually take too much pride in how they do their jobs to play along. What'll really tear this for me is learning that such officers are being rebuked and denied promotions, etc. for not playing along. I know when I was robbed last year on my doorstep, if they hadn't taken a report I'd have been quite annoyed. They ended up shooting my robber four times...so it was kinda hard to not file a report.

But it is also not a conspiracy nor, as implied, a matter of policy.

I'm sure it isn't unique that folks want to file as little paperwork as possible. But I'd like to see you demonstrate any other major city in the country where people are lying in hospital beds with gunshot wounds while the Police Commissioner is arguing that it's ok--AND not isolated--that the police don't take reports. Couple that with a Mayor who is running for govt more or less on the sole platform of greatly reducing crime...and you're SOL. Where else is that happening Coronach? We're dying to hear about it. It might not be written anywhere...but if it's happening, widely and commonly, and the PC even says so...yeah, that's policy buddy.

My policy is I don't date men. It's not written anywhere, but I can assure you it's my policy.

 

[Coronach]

Let's be clear on what he's saying--we're not recording that a crime occured because we didn't like the cooperation provided by the victims. And that, my friends, is a problem. It doesn't even take into account the scads of stories of assaults and burglaries where the victims DID want to cooperate and the PD still didn't take reports.

I'm not sure that's what he is saying. He's stating that in instances where the victims won't cooperate, it is sometimes OK to not take reports. FWIW, I would say that gunshot wounds would not be one of those instances, but consider- it comes back to what report to take. Was it an agg assault, or was it a robbery? Depending on the level of "uncooperation", you might be to the point where someone is injured but you have no darned clue what happened. I know it sounds alien to the reader, the mere idea that you could be beaten or shot and not want to tell the police what happened, but I assure you that this happens every day. I agree with you that for serious offenses you go with what you know, however limited, and file a report. From reading over the links, it is not at all clear that he is defending the officer's decision to not file a report in this instance, just in a general sense. If they actually have a guy in a hospital bed with a GSW and no report is filed, something is certainly wrong- but is it a conspiracy?

If people don't cooperate it probably does make prosecution difficult. That DOES NOT mean a crime didn't happen or that the PD doesn't have to discharge their duty.

Collecting info for stats is only half the battle- it needs to be accurate info. Again, was it a robbery? A simple assault? An agg assault? Was a weapon used? What weapon? Was it domestic-related? All of these are things you need to know to classify the crime. If you don't know them, you are not classifying it properly. Which is worse, a crime that is unreported or one that is improperly classified? Both skew the statistics.

It DOES mean that, since even PC Hamm admits this isn't an isolated practice, that crimes are happening that aren't being reported--which doesn't do much for dissuading criminals, does it?

Even today I had someone post on my website about a friend getting pistol whipped and the cops refusing to take a report. If it were one person here or there...we might be able to brush it off. But there's been a constant deluge of people complaining about this, and now we have PC Hamm admitting that this, in fact, is going on. And he did it on camera. (The video is attached to one of the links I think).

Again, this sounds more like lazy cops than a policy to suppress crime numbers. Believe me, I'd almost rather it be the former than the latter; I don't claim this as some sort of victory for law enforcement. I agree that if this is a frequent occurance that BPD needs to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with its officers and remind them that putting pen to paper is part of the job description.

I don't think you can let the commanders and leadership off the hook on this. Either they didn't know this was happening and are derelict (which doesn't seem to be the case), or they knew it was going on, and probably encouraged or at least accepted this practice for political gain. Either one is a fireable offense.

I still hold it is more dereliction than conspiracy. Any time you have someone clamoring to make a report, a report should be filed. Period. It sounds like the street officers are being given too much discretion in when to take and when not to take reports. This is still saveral key ingredients short of a conspiracy.

What'll really tear this for me is learning that such officers are being rebuked and denied promotions, etc. for not playing along.

Cite?

I'm sure it isn't unique that folks want to file as little paperwork as possible. But I'd like to see you demonstrate any other major city in the country where people are lying in hospital beds with gunshot wounds while the Police Commissioner is arguing that it's ok--AND not isolated--that the police don't take reports. Couple that with a Mayor who is running for govt more or less on the sole platform of greatly reducing crime...and you're SOL. Where else is that happening Coronach? We're dying to hear about it. It might not be written anywhere...but if it's happening, widely and commonly, and the PC even says so...yeah, that's policy buddy.

My policy is I don't date men. It's not written anywhere, but I can assure you it's my policy.

You might have something here. The commissioner and various other bigwigs have decided that it is in their best interests not to ride the street cops and make sure they file the appropriate paperwork at all times. That is still, to my mind, not a policy, but it is, at least, a plausible scenario. I can buy that this happens, it makes a sort of sense. It requires no shadowy conspiracy, and "helps" everyone out (except the citizens); the cops get to be lethargic and the political leadership gets softer crime stats.

As to where else this happens, I assure you that every police department in this nation links "duplicates" of runs, and every PD in this country has officers that will not take reports when they are lacking critical information needed to properly classify them. However, it is a question of degree. It sounds like BPD is being less than careful in duping and less than meticulous in its report-taking.

Mike

 

[Helmetcase]

I'm not sure that's what he is saying. He's stating that in instances where the victims won't cooperate, it is sometimes OK to not take reports.

The problem is we have a documented pattern of this happening in cases that it's clearly NOT ok to not put pen to paper, and PC Hamm trying to justify it.

FWIW, I would say that gunshot wounds would not be one of those instances, but consider- it comes back to what report to take. Was it an agg assault, or was it a robbery? Depending on the level of "uncooperation", you might be to the point where someone is injured but you have no darned clue what happened.

When people are shot at, a violent crime is committed--even if no one is hit. Period.

I know it sounds alien to the reader, the mere idea that you could be beaten or shot and not want to tell the police what happened, but I assure you that this happens every day.

I don't doubt that for a second--when I got robbed, the cops were pleasantly surprised that I was willing to ride around the neighborhood looking for the perp. People are too scared to do that too often.

Even so, that doesn't mean a crime hasn't been committed, or that it's ok for someone like the Commish to sanction or let that sort of thing slide--let alone go on camera and say that it's ok by him.

If they actually have a guy in a hospital bed with a GSW and no report is filed, something is certainly wrong- but is it a conspiracy?

I don't think I'm really saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying it's a criminal dereliction of duty, a failure to discharge the office, and if the commanding officers are saying it's fine by them, then that's policy man.

Collecting info for stats is only half the battle- it needs to be accurate info. Again, was it a robbery? A simple assault? An agg assault? Was a weapon used? What weapon? Was it domestic-related? All of these are things you need to know to classify the crime. If you don't know them, you are not classifying it properly. Which is worse, a crime that is unreported or one that is improperly classified? Both skew the statistics.

The problem here is different. We're talking about crimes not getting reported at all, which is far worse. And the head cop saying he's cool with that. On camera.

Again, this sounds more like lazy cops than a policy to suppress crime numbers.

Then I don't know what to tell you. We have documented cases of violent crimes not getting reported, and the PC giving his tacit approval. You can call it what you want, but when the Commish starts saying "yeah, that's the way I want it done" then it's a LOT more than just lazy cops. I dunno why you insist on the rosy colored glasses for what's going on here, but you seem to be missing some of the key facets of what's at work here.

It sounds like BPD is being less than careful in duping and less than meticulous in its report-taking.

Mike

Indeed. And it's a real eyesore for a mayor-turned-governatorial-candidate who's staked his political life on being a crime fighter. He's handed his opponents a cocked and locked .45.