Barrel life from various metal/coatings--223

[bantam9]

Stainless, melonite, chrome,...ect
What would an average life span of the choices for an 223/556 AR barrel?
Assume off the shelf ammo-nothing loaded hot...
I have no clue, and trying to choose an entry level rig for some range fun. Lots of choices out there.

 

[Ibmikey]

Bantam, thought you should have at least one response....any of the coatings suggested will work fine in an AR or actually uncoated bores are great also. The amount of shooting the average guy will do does not put a strain on any barrel, only when sustained fire/ mag dumps etc. is used often will you see any wear taking place, if you are hard on it Nitride or chrome will aid greatly in the life of the barrel.

 

[briansmithwins]

The amount of shooting the average guy will do does not put a strain on any barrel

Pretty much any shooting causes erosion of the throat of the barrel. Smaller bores and higher velocities make the erosion worse.

If you only shoot 100 rounds a year, you'll probably never see any adverse affects from the throat erosion. If you shoot 10,000 rounds a year, you'll be needing a new barrel every two or three years. Harsh firing cycles increase the rate of erosion.

Plain steel and stainless have the least resistance to barrel erosion, hardchrome and nitride are more resistant. I haven't seen any consistent documentation about differences between hardchrome and nitride.

All that said, I'd expect pretty much any 556 barrel to last at least 10,000 rounds and to need replacement before hitting 30,000. You'll know it's time when groups start opening up dramatically. Barrels are a consumable item and will need replacing if used enough.

BSW

 

[bantam9]

thanks guys--
all the discussions I see concerning ar barrels, thought I'd see what kind of usage would make a particular barrel shot-out. I see reviews by folks who won't consider anything but chrome lined, others who don't care. Not ever being in the ar game, and now considering it, thought I'd ask for best barrel even if it's only a 500 round/year toy. From you 2 guys ,sounds like it wouldn't matter much which barrel I select.



Thanks for the input.

 

[M1key]

Nitrided barrels seem popular right now. Melonite is the brand name. Cheaper to make and as durable as chrome (maybe). Benefit to shooters is purportedly a bit better accuracy since the bore is more uniform than chrome-lined.

Good luck

BTW, I've got a $300 PSA carbine kit with nitrided barrel on the way. Should be fun.

M

 

[boom boom]

Check out the AR15.com thread with Henderson Defense. They apparently run a shooting range including full auto and have a lot of practical observations about what they've seen with some rifles approaching 100k rounds downfield. They do mention barrel wear to the time to where the bullets keyhole @15 yds but I don't remember exactly what they said about it. It is a LONG thread.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=677135

 

[M1key]

Just read that today. Interesting...

M

 

[eldon519]

Also depends what kind of ammo you shoot. This test's results suggest the cheap stuff may be what you need to watch out for, not just hot stuff. More specifically it seemed to be the bimetal jackets of the cheap stuff and aggressive firing schedules. Probably shouldn't be a factor for your intended usage but just something worth knowing about.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

 

[Jim Watson]

Phew. 23 pages. Be about 12 if you could fast forward past all the "that's great" posts.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Barrel life means different things to different people. Three common measures are:

1) To a precision shooter, when groups increase noticeably, perhaps 25% from their best averages. So say a barrel shoots .75 MOA consistently with a handload recipe, and starts doing no better than 1 MOA. To the F-class or precision shooter the barrel may need replacing. Most casual shooters wouldn't even notice.

2) To the military, when muzzle velocity has decreased 200fps from the standard for a new barrel. This is pretty dramatic and chances it won't be accurate at that point either.

3) To anyone who ever shoots on paper, when bullets start keyholing. By that point accuracy is probably "minute of barn" or thereabouts.

With semiauto and privately purchased ammo, very few people will ever reach the 2nd and 3rd measures above. And most of those that do will be high round count users running Wolf or other bimetal jacketed bullets while getting barrels very, very hot.

With copper jacketed bullets and reasonable firing schedules (not mag dumps), even unlined, untreated barrels are likely to last 10-15,000 rounds, carbon or stainless steel. Chrome lined and nitride barrels will probably last 2-3 times longer, or more.

I've been watching for years to see anything definitive on nitride vs. chrome lining and still have not. The military did some testing in the 1960's and at that time chrome lining was definitely better for machinegun purposes. That may not be correct for slow fire and it may not be the same with modern treatment methods. My hunch is that nitride is probably a little less durable than chrome lining, but I haven't seen any hard evidence proving it either way.

Very few people will wear out a nitride or chrome lined barrel with copper jacketed bullets, even for competition purposes.

 

[MutinousDoug]

I shoot the NRA High Power matches. They are 88 round matches (80 rounds are scored). Shot at 200, 300 and 600 yds. No-one shoots less than 69gr bullets and most shoot 75 or 80gr bullets at the 300 through 600 yd targets. This in 1 in 8" twist barrels. No stage is shot faster than 10 rounds in 60 seconds. I can assure you the bullets do not keyhole at 600 yds if you intend to be competitive.
My Olympic Arms barrel lasted a good 4K rounds and went to pot before 5K. By that, I mean it still shot MoA at 4K but shot about 3 MoA at less than 5K rounds down range. I expect my new Kreiger barrel to last longer because it shows almost no copper fouling after a match now. It's smooth. The barrel I took off looks like a dry lake bed for the 1st 6" on the inside beyond the chamber. It's probably good for another 10-20K rounds using the criteria described by the commercial full-auto amusement park above.

 

[briansmithwins]

My Olympic Arms barrel lasted a good 4K rounds and went to pot before 5K.

What barrel material? Unlined, I assume?

BSW

 

[ilmonster]

If you look at Pat Rogers musings on how to run an AR (he's a trainer - EAG Tactical, former marine, NYPD), he's mentioned that he's run BCM AR's stressing that even if you don't clean them but keep them well lubricated, they can run 30K+ rounds. My point isn't about the maintenance requirements, but that he's run chrome lined BCM barrels 30K+ rounds and they still shoot fine. He also runs them in classes with a tougher shooting regimen than most of us (1,000's of rounds per class) which as others above have mentioned, increases the rate of throat erosion. I don't shoot 1,000 rounds in a year through my AR, more like 500/yr.

If you're talking competition shooters using a bolt action .223 such as F-class shooters, etc., their definition of accuracy and barrel life will be quite different than an AR used as it was designed. I also have a 20" Rem 700 SPS TAC in .223 and would not expect it to live for 30K rounds. It has no lining or coating and I'm able to shoot 1/2 MOA groups today. When it gets worse than 1 MOA, I would have it re-barreled.

 

[ilmonster]

p.s. if you shoot 30K rounds before the barrel is shot out, how long your barrel lasts is kind of irrelevant as you would have spent $10,500 on ammo (at $7.00 per box of 20)! More than enough to purchase one heck of a lot of extra barrels!

If you choose one of the top shelf brands, I'm guessing barrel life won't be a problem - e.g. Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, Smith & Wesson, Sig, etc. Many of those brands are also built to the actual "mil-spec" according to the governments TDP.

Also, if you visit M4carbine.net or AR15.com, you'll find more information than you'll ever be able to read. Cheers!

 

[wanderinwalker]

My experience with stainless match barrels in .223 roughly mirrors MutinousDoug's. Somewhere between 3500 and 4500 rounds they go south, unpredictably and with ego-bruising consequences. With my first barrel I noticed what I called "mystery 8s" at 600 yards. Replaced with a WOA-chambered Wilson SS barrel and back to hammering targets. The second one I replaced with 3400 rounds on the clock, before it started blowing groups. Which leads me to a point on match rifle barrels in Highpower: don't get attached to it and be prepared to replace it. The guys shooting Kreigers didn't seem to get many more rounds out of their barrels between replacements either, maybe another 500-1000.

Now on the fun, short range blaster side, I have a Colt with a Colt chrome-lined barrel. I expect this one to go 15-20k rounds before accuracy degrades to the point it's no longer suitable for plinking targets of opportunity. I'm also happy not to calculate how much that many rounds of ammo is going to cost.

All I can say for sure is lined barrels have a reputation for longer life than unlined barrels, and the life of a barrel is really based on your range and accuracy requirements.

 

[Archangel14]

What about Kryptonite lining? Any advantages there?

 

[MutinousDoug]

What barrel material? Unlined, I assume?

BSW

Naked 1 in 8" sst barrel. Although the 1st 1000-1500 rounds down range were MoS2 coated that I didn't see any profit in velocity or ease of cleaning so the rest were naked as well.