Baseball Cards and Modern Firearms

[bersaguy]

In 1984 the Detroit Tigers won the World Series, and as a kid growing up at the time I was quite taken with this. As many did in the mid to late 80's I started collecting baseball cards. About that time a lot of kids, and adults for that matter, got into baseball cards. Many were spurred on my tales of finding a Mickey Mantle rookie card stashed away in an old box of their father's, and being able to start a college fund with the proceeds. However, companies producing these cards increased their production to meet this huge surge in demand for their product, and subsequently, the valve of cards produced from the mid 80's through the 90's plummeted.
So...nice story, but what does this have to do with firearms? Well, there has been a huge surge of demand for firearms over the past 10-15 years, and manufacturers have been cranking out product to meet it. My question is, 20 years from now, does anyone forsee a time where firearms manufactured in the early 2000's sees a marked decrease in valve? Or, will there always be a demand for firearms enough to at least maintain the price of decent quality guns?
The reason this comes up for me, is I was recently at a gun show with a Ruger Sr1911 that I was thinking of selling. Didn't have to, but if I could get a halfway decent price, I'd let it go. Best offer I got was $350....maybe just not my day...or maybe that just where the market is headed. I'd really hate to have a box of budget ARs and Ruger pistols next to the box of old baseball cards in my attic

 

[Obturation]

I think you're somewhat correct.
Another comparison to draw is to cars.
Any of the polymer striker fired guns are like a mustang or camaro - perform just fine but not worth squat once they're 15 years old, compare that to the same model from 1969 and the value difference is significant even though the modern and undesirable car would spank the old one in every single catagory (except looks).
High end items hold value regardless, you wont be buying nighthawks and ed browns for $100 in 20 years, just wont happen. But you could probably find a hi-point for next to nothing (really you already can). Guns made in massive numbers will only retain value as a tool and have zero collector value, except for rare items. Seen what a gen 1 glock goes for? But compare that to what a gen 1 xd goes for - basically no collector value at all.
A 1911 will hold value against what a new similar model costs at the time, if a budget 1911 costs $1000 in 2050 a good condition 30 year old model would still likely bring 3/4 the price. But it all depends on new tech.
The tricky part is to equate guns to baseball cards because a baseball card is not useful for anything except making a huffy sound like a harley to a 6 year old. The value is 100% perception, you can't eat it, shoot it or drive it . so as it pains me to say it an honus wagner card truely and factually is worth exactly $0, unless someone values it more. A hammer from 1982 does have value as it has an actual use and as long as the hadle hasn't fallen off would be worth a certain percent of what it costs to buy one at the store because it is every bit as functional . I think guns are the same story, just my .02.

 

[Obturation]

Oh, by the way - if the sr1911 is in good condition ill give you $360 for it .

 

[<*(((><]

Baseball cards are paper, worthless in regards tp usefulness other than leveling out a rocking table leg. Guns are machines, tools, protection, food gatherers, intricate, physical, entertaining, etc.

There is no direct comparison what happened with baseball cards to firearms, in my opinion. A firearm that was produced abundantly/to excess in the 2000’s will still have a value placed upon it by its usefulness; a baseball card from the 80’s what use does it have?

 

[fpgt72]

Collecting things that you think will be of value.....good luck.

So much goes into this, I will touch on just a few things.......The reason that Mickey Mantel rookie card is valuable is because no one collected them, locked them in a box thinking this is going to be worth thousands one day....it was just a baseball card.....there are not that many around (more on this later) Being a child of the late 60's and 70's I do remember the baseball craze....people buying the entire box and just putting them away because they knew they are going to be worth something.....and the dealers at the mall selling BOXES of Topps cards.....and people walking out thinking if just one of those cards ends up being of value they will hit the gold mine.....along with the 100 million other people that bought the same boxed set.....sorry it does not really work that way. Same with 60's muscle cars.....back when I was in high school you could buy a 68 Charger for $1000 and it was a DARN NICE CAR....it was just an old big car that got horrid gas mileage....remember the gas crunch......so after us kids ran the crap out of them got crashed or crushed....not that many left.....20 years later it is just an old car.....now that most are dust....and you have things on TV driving prices like Barret Jackson the prices of the old cars have gone nutz.....and that bubble has about broke.....and why.

People are ageing out.....the LARGE market for muscle cars is getting smaller.....not as many buyers......In other things most guys don't know about....porcelain dolls, the market really took a huge hit quite a few years ago.....the people that collected them are.....well dead, these are children of the 20's-40's when these toys are popular.....no one "collected" them and finding nice examples really are something....and the prices went nutz again around the 80's.....when the people that wanted these things hit the age of their prime spending dollar.

It goes with anything "old" that you look at and go.....who in his right mind would spend $30,000 on a stupid wrist watch just because it says Rolex on it......the new versions will never be worth that because the old versions are....it does not work that way.

This is already getting long...so back to gunz.
IMHO very few things made today will hit the status of that 1943 1911....and yes "the war" has a lot to do with it....but not all. Look at the older Colt "snake" guns....the older colt automatics, lever winchesters....those are real easy things to point to....things that when made are tools....things to be used and enjoyed.....when the first model 29 came out....with all those "early" features people did not buy it (before the movie) for anything past being a hunting hand gun....it was a tool.....it was used and not packed away to be worth something down the road.

 

[fpgt72]

Baseball cards are paper, worthless in regards tp usefulness other than leveling out a rocking table leg. Guns are machines, tools, protection, food gatherers, intricate, physical, entertaining, etc.

There is no direct comparison what happened with baseball cards to firearms, in my opinion. A firearm that was produced abundantly/to excess in the 2000’s will still have a value placed upon it by its usefulness; a baseball card from the 80’s what use does it have?

Not a high road answer.....but you are clueless to the collecting area in general.....you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I don't intend that to come across as being a jerk.

People think spending hundreds of thousands on a mass produced american car that is 50 years old is being stupid. There are people that think why spend several thousand on an old 18xx winchester.....or even a 198x when you can buy a new henry _______....that old gun is just that OLD, the new one made with new machines, new metal processes will be so much better in the long run.

Why buy that 1943 remington rand 1911 when the new R1 is made better, tighter, NEW, comes with a warranty.....bla bla bla. Both are "tools, protection....." so why spend the thousands on the old one when for under a grand you can have the new.

Collectiing does not work that way.

 

[larryh1108]

Supply and demand is a huge consideration when determining price a generation from now. If something becomes desirable by our grand kids because a new movie features it or an interactive video game features it and it becomes a hot commodity, the price will go up. However, if millions were made and sold, finding one will be easier than a rare (read limited production) item. Attrition will eliminate a portion of the item out there but 70% of 10,000 items made or 70% of 2 million items made makes a huge difference in the new retail price.

Let's look at 2 recently discontinued guns. The Browning Hi Power was recently discontinued. These were not a cheap purchase when new and they've held their value over the years. However, with millions upon millions produced, will they be a hot item in 50 years? Well, due to their quality and reputation, I am sure they will hold their value well but I don't see them becoming that next $4,000 Python. Too many out there.

Now we have Colt stopping their commercial production of the AR15. They used to be "the brand" to own a few decades ago. Those pre-ban Colts are worth more than a current production AR even though they perform the same and look (basically) the same. Will these increase their value in a generation from now? Well, up until now, anything with that pony on it has held it's prices well but there is a plethora of nice ARs on the market today. I see the Colt AR being worth more than the latest, greatest AR being made today (the generic versions, not the upper echelon makes) but not by a lot. If in 50 years a run-of-the-mill AR goes for $2,000, a Colt may go for $3,000. Not enough to put your kid thru college but still a tad bit more.

SO yes, the millions of any particular model being produced does lower the future collector's value. Supply and demand drives the prices. There is a lot of supply in guns because, if taken care of, can last for 100+ years.

 

[Flintshooter]

Another thing that comes into play when selling anything, new or used, is the low baller.
A story I’ve told many times.......
Back in the eighties I’d been on a buying binge and needed to sell a few that were never or seldom shot. One selected was a hand built flintlock made from a kit offered by gunstock dealer Wayne Dunlap. It had just enough rounds down the barrel to be sighted in and be a proven shooter and was in near new condition. The kit to build one just like it required quite a bit of work to complete and at the time sold for $495. As a used rifle, I had mine priced at what I considered a give away price of $500. Some asked why so cheap, and some, used to the at the time price of $100 two piece stock CVAs handed it back in horror at the thought of spending $500 for a rifle.
One kid showed strong interest, but HAD to feel that he was getting a deal by getting me to drop an already more than reasonable rock bottom price. I refused to drop the price, he refused to buy.
This is happening at Friendship during one of the National Matches of the NMLRA. It is commuting distance for me. Before I left that day a friend who had a booth on commercial row put the rifle in his booth and tacked $50 on it for himself. If the kid changed his mind, the rifle was going to cost him $550. When I went back the next day my friend handed me my $500. Wayne Dunlap has bought it back and it was hanging in his booth for $850. I have always hoped the shrewd trader who would only buy if I would meet HIS price got to look at that rifle all week and realize it could have been his for $350 less.
In the end though, what something is worth is what somebody else will pay for it. I lost a Colt Hbar in a 1999 burglary. I shot it a lot and wish I still had it, but there is no way I would pay the price I see for the few new ones still available. And I wouldn’t want one of the tactical styles at any price. Someone with different tastes in firearms would pay dearly for something I wouldn’t want free.
Most of my muzzleloaders are a few notches above average, but the market for them is small. If they had to be sold, even in a good venue, the chances of them bringing even a third of what they are actually worth is small. Appraisers and blue books don’t determine value. Buyers do.

 

[fpgt72]

Another thing that comes into play when selling anything, new or used, is the low baller.
A story I’ve told many times.......
Back in the eighties I’d been on a buying binge and needed to sell a few that were never or seldom shot. One selected was a hand built flintlock made from a kit offered by gunstock dealer Wayne Dunlap. It had just enough rounds down the barrel to be sighted in and be a proven shooter and was in near new condition. The kit to build one just like it required quite a bit of work to complete and at the time sold for $495. As a used rifle, I had mine priced at what I considered a give away price of $500. Some asked why so cheap, and some, used to the at the time price of $100 two piece stock CVAs handed it back in horror at the thought of spending $500 for a rifle.
One kid showed strong interest, but HAD to feel that he was getting a deal by getting me to drop an already more than reasonable rock bottom price. I refused to drop the price, he refused to buy.
This is happening at Friendship during one of the National Matches of the NMLRA. It is commuting distance for me. Before I left that day a friend who had a booth on commercial row put the rifle in his booth and tacked $50 on it for himself. If the kid changed his mind, the rifle was going to cost him $550. When I went back the next day my friend handed me my $500. Wayne Dunlap has bought it back and it was hanging in his booth for $850. I have always hoped the shrewd trader who would only buy if I would meet HIS price got to look at that rifle all week and realize it could have been his for $350 less.
In the end though, what something is worth is what somebody else will pay for it. I lost a Colt Hbar in a 1999 burglary. I shot it a lot and wish I still had it, but there is no way I would pay the price I see for the few new ones still available. And I wouldn’t want one of the tactical styles at any price. Someone with different tastes in firearms would pay dearly for something I wouldn’t want free.
Most of my muzzleloaders are a few notches above average, but the market for them is small. If they had to be sold, even in a good venue, the chances of them bringing even a third of what they are actually worth is small. Appraisers and blue books don’t determine value. Buyers do.

Very good post.....yes the buyers do, and the buyers change.

But some things are set as forever type items.....and it does not matter what they are....a 1966 barbie or an 1866 winchester.

 

[<*(((><]

Not a high road answer.....but you are clueless to the collecting area in general.....you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I don't intend that to come across as being a jerk.
.

I guess I’ll continue being “clueless” about collecting. I didn’t realize pointing out the fact that one item the OP was talking about has value as a tool, one does not in the slightest. Did not even broach the subject of collectibility. Reading comprehension is a good place to start. Didn’t realize that wasn’t “highroad.”

And in regards to your comment on you not coming across as a jerk, I’m fully aware of how you come across on this board and the fact you have to put that out there is telling.

Anyways, I’m done with you. As this is fast approaching not being highroad. I’m sure others will appreciate your collecting “expertise.”

 

[fpgt72]

I guess I’ll continue being “clueless” about collecting. I didn’t realize pointing out the fact that one item the OP was talking about has value as a tool, one does not in the slightest. Didn’t realize that wasn’t “highroad.”

And in regards to your comment on you not coming across as a jerk, I’m fully aware of how you come across on this board and the fact you have to put that out there is telling.

Anyways, I’m done with you. As this is fast approaching not being highroad. I’m sure others will appreciate your collecting “expertise.”

Sorry if the truth hurt.....but making the statement "Baseball cards are paper, worthless in regards tp usefulness other than leveling out a rocking table leg" really can put people off......how would you feel if someone said gunz are only good for killing people.....it is exactly the same thing and made from the same place as far as the person saying it has any clue about what they are talking about.

And if you think that rookie mickey mantel card is only good for leveling a table leg then you are clueless....or that 1966 barbie is a $.25 garage sale item....both have very real value.

 

[Virginia Jim]

As us old collectors are dying off, the younger generation has no desire for the things we collected.
The supply will go up and demand will come down.

 

[AlexanderA]

The biggest factor in gun values is going to be legislation. Depending on that, your guns may be valuable, or may be worthless. That's why guns don't follow the rules of ordinary collectibles.

 

[fpgt72]

The biggest factor in gun values is going to be legislation. Depending on that, your guns may be valuable, or may be worthless. That's why guns don't follow the rules of ordinary collectibles.

Very good point....without going political.....many things can change in one election, or one event....and all those jokes about lost in a boating accident will ring very true.

 

[<*(((><]

Sorry if the truth hurt.....but making the statement "Baseball cards are paper, worthless in regards tp usefulness other than leveling out a rocking table leg" really can put people off......how would you feel if someone said gunz are only good for killing people.....it is exactly the same thing and made from the same place as far as the person saying it has any clue about what they are talking about.

And if you think that rookie mickey mantel card is only good for leveling a table leg then you are clueless....or that 1966 barbie is a $.25 garage sale item....both have very real value.

Again and this will be the last time I suggest it, reading comprehension. What value as a tool does a baseball card have?

Never did I say they didn’t have value, just specifically that they have no value as a tool.

I’m very comfortable with the truth, you on the hand are not, obviously you have money put into athletic cards, good for you. I collected baseball cards when I was a kid and soon realized what I had said previously, They are not “USEFUL” in the slightest other than having trading value and collecting value. Or for leveling out table legs, or coffee coasters, or shims to fix an out of plumb door hinge, etc.

I put a perspective on the OP question, it was only “A” perspective and in no way was I saying it is the only perspective.

And for those that have rookie cards of great value, glad for you; hope they bring you joy.

I will bow out of this discussion, I provided a different way to look at the question and got my point across, I won’t detract further from the OP’s thread.

 

[bassjam]

Again and this will be the last time I suggest it, reading comprehension. What value as a tool does a baseball card have?

Never did I say they didn’t have value, just specifically that they have no value as a tool.

I’m very comfortable with the truth, you on the hand are not, obviously you have money put into athletic cards, good for you. I collected baseball cards when I was a kid and soon realized what I had said previously, They are not “USEFUL” in the slightest other than having trading value and collecting value. Or for leveling out table legs, or coffee coasters, or shims to fix an out of plumb door hinge, etc.

I put a perspective on the OP question, it was only “A” perspective and in no way was I saying it is the only perspective.

And for those that have rookie cards of great value, glad for you; hope they bring you joy.

I will bow out of this discussion, I provided a different way to look at the question and got my point across, I won’t detract further from the OP’s thread.

You're only putting value on what you consider useful from your own perspective. I've heard it said many times on gun forums that 1911's are outdated and pointless, so to those people certain guns are not even useful "tools". Same way with Hi Points, many consider them not worth the plastic and metal that goes into making them. Bottom line, everything is priced based on supply and demand. There's an oversupply of baseball cards from the 80's and onward, so they aren't worth a whole lot. There's also an oversupply of polymer pistols and AR15's, so while they are still being produced and the supply is plentiful they aren't worth a whole lot either.

The similarities between paper cards and hunks of plastic and steel are pretty evident to me.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Back to the OP...Twenty years from now, most guns made in the 2000s will still be considered "normal". Guns are like cars - they start with a retail value, lose value with wear and time, then recover value as they get much older.

Having said that, there are other factors. Base quality of manufacture helps a gun retain value and appreciate when it's older. A generic flintlock holster pistol from 1800 is worth some money, but a proper dueling pistol from a name maker is worth much more. Scarcity counts, too. The Gen 1 Glocks are a good example.

 

[fpgt72]

Again and this will be the last time I suggest it, reading comprehension. What value as a tool does a baseball card have?

Never did I say they didn’t have value, just specifically that they have no value as a tool.

I’m very comfortable with the truth, you on the hand are not, obviously you have money put into athletic cards, good for you. I collected baseball cards when I was a kid and soon realized what I had said previously, They are not “USEFUL” in the slightest other than having trading value and collecting value. Or for leveling out table legs, or coffee coasters, or shims to fix an out of plumb door hinge, etc.

I put a perspective on the OP question, it was only “A” perspective and in no way was I saying it is the only perspective.

And for those that have rookie cards of great value, glad for you; hope they bring you joy.

I will bow out of this discussion, I provided a different way to look at the question and got my point across, I won’t detract further from the OP’s thread.

Then you need to look up the word WORTHLESS. you used it in this manner:

Baseball cards are paper, worthless in regards tp usefulness other than leveling out a rocking table leg.

your direct quote.....so unless something does actual work for you you don't own it.....so does that mean every gun you own is a pure tool, none are shot for the pure pleasure of it.....I highly doubt that.....even if you tell yourself it is for "protection"....or "practice".....

But in the end whatever you need to tell yourself.

Things can be of great value and be something that you just look at. I am guessing in your book all art is worthless.....Mona Lisa....worthless.....sistine chapel....just spray paint over it...no worth at all there.

 

[Flintshooter]

Back to the OP...Twenty years from now, most guns made in the 2000s will still be considered "normal". Guns are like cars - they start with a retail value, lose value with wear and time, then recover value as they get much older.

Having said that, there are other factors. Base quality of manufacture helps a gun retain value and appreciate when it's older. A generic flintlock holster pistol from 1800 is worth some money, but a proper dueling pistol from a name maker is worth much more. Scarcity counts, too. The Gen 1 Glocks are a good example.

Good example of more recent vintage are hardware store shotguns. Every bit as functional as Winchester counterparts but not worth much because the name isn’t there.
There is a story about a student woodturner making a bowl under the guidance of a world famous wood turner. When it was done the student asked how much it was worth. The master’s answer was “it depends on which one of us signs it”.

 

[reddog81]

A functioning firearm will always have some inherent worth as a tool. Many firearms have additional worth assigned to them above and beyond that inherent worth. For example a functioning Colt Python has an inherent worth probably somewhere around $750 to $1,000 and any additional worth is assigned to it only because it's kind of rare, the finish and look of the gun are unmatched by anything being made today, etc... But realistically a S&W 686 will preform any task that a Python can do and arguing which one is better is similar to arguing whether Ford or Chevy is better.

A baseball card doesn't really have any inherent value what so ever. All the assigned value is strictly as a collectors item. You could take a box of all the most valuable baseball cards to a small village in the Tibetan mountains and they'd probably be used as kindling for a fire. Take that Ruger SR1911 from the OP and a box of ammo to that same village and the firearm becomes a tool for protection and hunting.

Taking a Ruger SR1911 to a gun show and trying to sell it is a guaranteed way to sell the gun in a short amount of time with minimal effort but you aren't going to get a decent price. It's probably a $500 gun but that means the dealer has to buy it for under $400 in order to make a living. Take a $500 baseball card to a card show and let me know what kind of offers you get.

 

[bassjam]

I think another think that will come into play is magazine availability for semi-auto's. You're always going to be able to find 1911, Beretta 92f, and Hi Power magazines. Probably Glock magazines as well. But what about the FNS that can only take FNS magazines and will likely be phased out in favor of the 509? How much will people be willing to pay for a gun when new magazines are no longer being made and the ones that are available are long in the tooth?

 

[roscoe]

As us old collectors are dying off, the younger generation has no desire for the things we collected.
The supply will go up and demand will come down.

This is it. As boomers and X-ers die off, muscle cars and the like will drop in value, since younger folks would rather play indoors (on their Xboxes). I would say roughly half of my teen kids' friends don't bother to get their driver's licenses - they have someone else drive them (mom/dad, or Uber for the rich kids).

Correspondingly, there will be a reduced market for older, wooden, blued steel firearms, and an even more dramatic fall-off for plastic pistols. But by then I will be dead, so I don't care. Until then, I will wrench on my old cars and shoot my old guns.

 

[PWC]

The value of anything is only what someone is willing to pay for it.

It is not what the owner paid for it, or wants to sell it for. Human nature drives collector value; be it ego to be the only person with one (paintings); utility of an item (tools); novelty, again ego driven...there are more, but even rarity value is ego and utility driven, the value to the new owner.

 

[fpgt72]

Good example of more recent vintage are hardware store shotguns. Every bit as functional as Winchester counterparts but not worth much because the name isn’t there.
There is a story about a student woodturner making a bowl under the guidance of a world famous wood turner. When it was done the student asked how much it was worth. The master’s answer was “it depends on which one of us signs it”.

Good catch...however Western Auto, Sears, Wards, Ted Williams on and on....are starting to go up in value....again it goes back to what was seen as disposable, not as "hot" as their name branded counterparts.....they are getting interest in the community.

I have several Western Auto branded....well anything, from guns to desk fans....being from KC, it just always hit me as kinda cool, and I do remember being there down town and western auto having all kinds of cool stuff.

The real take away here is going back to 80's baseball cards if something is sold to you new in the box as collectible chances are it is not. And this "hobby" is about as wide ranging as you can possible imagine.....ran across a guy the other day that collected Daisy (as in the air gun people) toy cars and trucks....I knew they existed, but never really thought past their gun....it really comes down to what YOU are interested in.

And one last thing....it really is not something you should go into looking to flip quick or make money on...yea it happens but that is not why "real" collectors search for their treasures.

 

[fpgt72]

Take a $500 baseball card to a card show and let me know what kind of offers you get.

Depends....generally $500......and a card you paid $500 for 15 years ago is likely to be worth many times that.....same goes with hot wheels or anything else.

But you need to know where the people that are interested in what you are selling are going to be.

Take that SR1911 to a card show and let me know what you get......if you get in.