Quantcast

BATFE proposes to ban SS109 & M855 ammunition for civilian sales.

Discussion in 'Activism' started by Trent, Feb 14, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,107
    Location:
    WA State (NOT in Seattle)
    Getting some Senators involved could be key.
     
  2. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,097
    Location:
    virginia
    That was literally in another Universe, far, far away....

    This is a very pointed, very direct, and very selective "re-interpretation" of existing regulation
    which is not subject any legislative influence -- or even action -- that will not be ignored and/or
    vetoed in these last 684 days.


    I would just love to be proven wrong.
    ...but I'm not holding my breath.


    You have been watching what happened just today haven't you ?
     
  3. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry
    I would love to think you might be right but 65% of the public and a majority in Congress support the Keystone XL pipeline and you can see how much that influenced him. What makes you think that a few vocal gun owners will reverse his position on this? And make no mistake, this is coming from the top.
     
  4. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,340
    Really? I recall many members here saying the ATFs only oversight was from the same folks giving them their marching orders, the Executive :confused:

    Obviously Congress is the proper tool for this, since the Executive is the problem at present, and since courts, like cops, only step in after irreparable damage has been done. I think a bill forcing regulators to respect all sanctioned competitive shooting events as "sporting purposes" guns so suited must be exempted for (so long as other laws, like NFA, do not conflict). It'd be hard to find honest opposition (they'd just whinge and moan about the NRA's "influence") so it may actually find traction, would be a great face-saving way for both Rs and Ds to reign in Obama (the Ds are secretly as terrified as we are, but must be team players to preserve any chance at glorious One Party Rule), and would get every practical/useful arm and ammunition exempted. Armor piercing, too, so long as a sanctioned sporting event allows its use for competition.

    TCB
     
  5. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,367
    As opposed to the alternative? If I can take 5 minutes out of my day to pester some politician against a BS ban I will. If it ends up working that is a big yay for me, feeling of accomplishment. If not, well I have my signature's second line is accurate.
     
  6. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry
    I just saw an interview with the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee who said there's a bipartisan letter with well over 100 House member's signatures that's going to the administration next week saying that they're violating the Administrative Procedures Act in banning without justification the second most popular ammunition which has been used for over 30 years by law-abiding citizens and which the FBI says has never been used to kill a law enforcement officer. He said that this is a blatant attempt at gun control by Executive Order and that the letter is just a start. It can be followed by lawsuits and the threat that they may withhold funding to enforce the ban.
    This was an interview by Shannon Bream who is filling in for Megyn Kelly on the Kelly Files on FOX News. I think the entire show will be repeated at midnight in case you're interested in watching it.
    THIS may actually get results.
     
  7. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry
    This is an email sent out this morning by Wideners with the email address and sample copy of a letter for the BATFE. If you haven't already done so, please take a minute to copy and paster it into an email and send it to BATFE. You can also use the link on the NRA-ILA page to send it to your Congressionsl Representatives....


    Contact ATF:
    Oppose 5.56 M855 Ball Ammunition Ban

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) unexpectedly announced that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as "armor piercing ammunition." The decision continues Obama's use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. Use the sample letter below to write the ATF and voice your opposition to this ban! BE COURTEOUS AND DO NOT
    USE PROFANITY. If you do write a letter with bad language, the ATF will rightfully ignore your comments.


    ATF will accept comments on this proposal until March 16, 2015. Email or write ATF today and tell them you oppose this unnecessary, misguided and damaging ban on commonly used ammunition for America's most popular sporting rifles. Additional information can be found at https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...nt-batfe-from-banning-common-rifle-ammunition.

    Email: [email protected]
    Fax: (202) 648-9741.
    Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.



    Feel free to use or edit the following sample letter, which can be emailed or mailed to the ATF:

    Your Name
    Address
    Address
    City, ST ZIP
    Your phone number (optional)
    Your email address (optional)


    ATTN: AP Ammo Comments

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    I oppose an ATF ban on 5.56 M855 ball ammunitions.

    It has come to my attention that the ATF is seeking public input on a proposed ban on 5.56 M855 ball ammunitions. I am contacting you today, to tell you I solidly oppose this ban.

    Law-abiding American citizens have been using 5.56 ball ammunition for sporting purposes for decades, so this legislation appears to be a case of the government arriving at a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

    Through this proposed ban, ATF disproportionately focuses on how criminals might use sporting ammunition in a handgun. Classifying criminals as a “consumer group” in the ATF’s white paper on this topic is also disturbing, as it further implies that the industry purposely sells firearms and ammunition to this element.

    I urge the ATF to permanently drop the proposed ban of 5.56 M855 ball ammunition.

    Sincerely,


    Your Name
     
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    54,601
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    The legislature controls the purse strings and can drag the regulatory agency leadership and and anyone in the agency in to testify before the various committees. The agencies do not want to have angry Congress tie up their budgets nor do they want them to pass focused legislation blocking or reversing their decisions.

    The knife industry was able to stop an overreaching Customs move to treat one hand opening and assisted opening knives as switchblades. They did this by getting Congressmen to act by first making an official enquiry like the one tcoz implies is being made and then passing specific legislation amending the switchblade law to exclude these knives form being treated as switchblades.

    The process is there and it does work, but only IF we do our part instead of shirking the responsibility and leaving it to others to do the heavy lifting. Self defeatist naysaying will never accomplish anything and only lead to losses against those who oppose us.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  9. Lightsped

    Lightsped Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,241
    Location:
    Kennesaw, Georgia
    Just curious, but exactly why does the ATF care to hear what we have to say? It isn't like they are elected or have a reason to please us...
     
  10. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    54,601
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    They're supposed to make these changes public before carrying them out as part of federal law.

    BUT they're supposed to open comment periods in the Federal Register instead of an internal website so they're catching serious flack for not following the required process. That alone is leverage for us to go after our Congresscritters to put a temporary stop to this and force BATFE to post in the CFR. THAT would give us more time to mount a greater effort against this decision if it didn't stop them dead in their tracks.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    54,601
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Forbes has picked this up and they're supportive of our position and provides ammunition for our opposition to the BATFE in this case. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankmi...is-the-atf-moving-to-ban-common-rifle-ammo/2/

     
  12. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,097
    Location:
    virginia
    We've just had a string of clear examples (DHS, HHS, Treasury/IRS, FCC) wherein it is evident that this is no longer the case.
    "Stop me if you can," has become the new Excutive operating principle.
    And so far, the only organization charged w/ that job stands silent.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  13. Thermactor

    Thermactor member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    992
    I love how they make the point that I'm screaming about in my signature line.
    First they came for the Norinco 7.62x39, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not an AK-47 owner.

    Then they came for the Russian 5.45x49, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a AK-74 owner.

    Then they came for the M855, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not an AR-15 owner.

    Then they came for my bolt action .243 deer gun—and there was no one left to speak for me.
     
  14. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    54,601
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    MEHavey,

    The continued defeatist posts aren't adding anything constructive to the discussion so what do you suggest to help us instead of claiming nothing can be done?
     
  15. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry

    ^^^^^^^THIS. Our collective voices have obviously been heard by members of Congress. hence the letter being sent to the Executive branch this week from at least 100 bipartisan members saying that this is an overreach of executive powers. Next in their arsenal are threatened lawsuits and the threat of withholding funds for implementation. Maybe it won't help, but it at least shows that we have some clout in Washington.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  16. borgranta

    borgranta Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Taken from the Wikipedia page is the description of M855 as having a lead core.

    The 5.56×45mm NATO SS109/M855 cartridge (NATO: SS109; U.S.: M855) with standard 62 gr. lead core bullets with steel penetrator will penetrate approximately 38 to 51 cm (15 to 20 in) into soft tissue in ideal circumstances. As with all spitzer shaped projectiles it is prone to yaw in soft tissue. However, at impact velocities above roughly 762 m/s (2,500 ft/s), it may yaw and then fragment at the cannelure (the crimping groove around the cylinder of the bullet).[

    Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 (United States): 5.56×45mm 62-grain FN SS109-equivalent ball cartridge with a steel penetrator tip over a lead core in a partial copper jacket. [green tip]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO#SS109.2FM855


    Since it has a lead core the ATF is illegally declaring it armor piercing.
     
  17. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,097
    Location:
    virginia
    I will bow out.
    I simply hope that we don't kid ourselves in expecting public reaction to block what is
    (IMO) the Executive modus operandi now in evidence for the next 680+ days.
     
  18. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry
    I forgot to mention that last night when I heard the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee talking about this, I was impressed by the fact that he wasn't only talking about an overreach of power but also had some knowledge of WHY M855 shouldn't be banned. Things like the composition of the bullet, the fact that the round has never been used to injure a law enforcement officer, that it's the second most used round by target shooters, sportsmen and even some hunters and other statistics and things that obviously came from either doing some research or from reading emails sent by people like you and me.
     
  19. tcoz

    tcoz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,212
    Location:
    South Carolina Lowcountry
    No need to bow out. I don't think any of us are deluding ourselves into thinking we've got this thing defeated. What does make me feel a little better is that even if this fails, we've at least tried everything that we (legally) can rather than sitting back and allowing this continued assault on the rights of the citizenry go on without a fight.

    I don't know whether anybody here watched the miniseries a few weeks ago called "Sons of Liberty", but damn, that was inspiring.
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    54,601
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Don't "bow out" if you have something constructive to contribute. Criticism is good if it challenges and strengthens us, but only naysaying and tearing down the morale of people trying to do something, even if you consider it futile, without offering alternatives is destructive to our cause and specifically counter to the requirements of the forum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  21. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,097
    Location:
    virginia
    Again, I'm going to bow out.
    My apologies aforehand. ;)
     
  22. mokin

    mokin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,362
    Location:
    Western Colorado
    MEHavey makes a good point here. That hasn't stopped me. If we quit we'll only have ourselves to blame and always ask ourselves what may be different if we hadn't stopped trying. I think many of our congress critters may be getting weary of gun issues. I wrote my representative again this morning and in addition to thanking him for the reply to my earlier letter (a canned politically expedient/neutral letter), I changed the subject line from Second Amendment rights to "Stop unconstitutional laws". I'm interested to read the response.

    That is encouraging.
     
  23. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Congress can help fix this issue. With the NRA, the ammo makers, and people writing Congress, this ATF regulation can be fixed. As always, be polite when writing letters/emails. An impolite letter will just be trashed.

    You're always going to have a difference of opinion with people, but being polite and having an educated response goes a long ways.
     
  24. SilentStalker

    SilentStalker Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    Location:
    Somewhere in the U.S., London, or Australia
    Again, I ask, "Has anyone been able to get through using that email address for comment?"
     
  25. CLP

    CLP Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    Alabama
    I didn't send an email. I faxed that lady a letter, then sent hard copies to her and to my reps.

    We need to stop fooling around with emails to reps and gov't officials. Phone calls, faxes, and snail mail is what gets attention. Nothing that catches your attention quite like dozens upon dozens of pages bearing down on the plastic holder on a fax machine. Or piles of envelopes. Or angry citizens calling to voice their opinions.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice