Bayonet on rifle? Yes or No?

[Some_Mook]

IIRC, the bayonet bracket on the rifle is one of those "features" banned in IL-ANNOY.
That's why I voted "No". Besides, isn't the whole idea of a "rifle" is to keep them further away? I would just as soon choose to keep them WAY beyond "bayonet range".

You are correct, the military idea of why to use a rifle was to allow infantry to place better aimed fire against enemy troops and cavalry at a greater distance to dissuade them from closing to within bayonet or saber range. During the Crimean War it was also found that a rifle could be effectively used to suppress artillery. In later years, the machine gun was found to be even more effective against stopping enemy troops from closing to within edged weapon range than a rifle with the trade-offs of being less mobile and being crew served.
There are few valid reasons why politicians would think banning bayonet mounts on rifles would make any difference, one would be that they believed that making a rifle less scary-looking would make it less desirable to use for nefarious purposes. Either that or they figured that if they limit ammunition capacity or otherwise manage to slow down a shooter's reload time AND by preventing said shooter from having a bayonet attached it would be easier for the average unarmed citizen to charge the shooter and disarm them.

 

[usaral63]

They have more applications than just sticking someone................ie: opening banded cases and importantly detecting mines. Good toenail cleaner too!

 

[Conelrad]

Get a cheap one for each of your rifles. When going out shooting, affix same.

When not shooting, just stick it in the ground.

You're never without an expedient gun rack.

Conelrad

 

[lysanderxiii]

I was a tanker in the army and the main gun didn’t have a means to mount bayonet……

…..but it would be awesome if it did.

 

[Robert]

 

[lysanderxiii]

In 1871, the Army concluded that the era of the bayonet charge was largely over, and a far more useful item for the infantryman would be a shovel. Enter the Rice Trowel Bayonet:

500 trowel bayonets were produced and sent to several western outposts for user trials. Most of the units reported that the trowel bayonet was a more useful implement than the current (triangular) bayonet, as digging a hole, or throwing up a small berm to hide behind was more important than sticking people out on the western frontier. Most of the complaints were that it was not that great a shovel, and the bayonet parts should be dropped.

The Board of Breech-Loading Small Arms chaired by General Alfred Terry (Terry Board) recommended approval in 1873. One of the Board members was Major Marcus Reno, who would later state that losses at Little Big Horn would have been less had the Cavalry been issued a similar type implement. The trowel bayonet never fully replaced the older triangular socket bayonet, and was disliked by traditionalist. When the next Springfield model came out in 1880, it was fitted with a ram-rod bayonet. The ram-rod bayonet would continue on for the next few Trapdoor models of 1882, 1888.

 

[22250Rem]

Picked up a few bayonets here & there to go with various rifles that I've owned. Some have been sold since I began downsizing about 5 years ago. Like this Lee-Enfield #1 Mark III that I now regret selling. .. Always felt a connection to it, as my paternal grandfather spent 17 months in France with the Canadian Machine Gun Corps during WW1. I'm sure he saw a lot of these. Still have a 1908 Brazilian Mauser in 7x57 here that I picked up about 1992. Never had a bayonet for it until a few years ago when one appeared on a gun show table full of edged stuff. . There's also the #4 Mark I Lee-Enfield sporter that was de-sporterized back into its original configuration 4 years ago. Had a thread going here on this web site about it. While picking up a couple small pieces for it from Gun Parts Corporation I also ordered a bayonet for it. Just realized I don't have photos of it with that bayonet. Will have to see if I can get some this week and post an update when they get onto the computer.

 

[d2wing]

I've been collecting USN Militaria since 1991, so, I have a Lot Of The Things (so, I actually have LBE for all this, and in the several LBE "generations" too)
SC 03A3 with a USN Mk I
View attachment 1202306
Springfield Garand with M1 ('43 AFH)
View attachment 1202304
Saginaw M1 Carbine with M4
View attachment 1202302
All three:
View attachment 1202307
I've got an M5 Garand bayonet on KW issue webbing (not shown)
And an M6 M-14 bayonet on M-1961 782 gear (not shown) too.
Did not skip over the 'modern era' either. (Other than no longer having an AR-15A1, sigh)
So, AR-15A2 with M7 bayonet
View attachment 1202299
Also with M9 Bayonet
View attachment 1202300
And, of course, the absurdity of an M4gery with M9 bayonet
View attachment 1202305
Side Note USMC had dropped Pugil Stick Training around '99 or so to limit injuries during Boot Camp.
So, they doubled down on Bayonet Training as a result.
That police changed about 2018, and dropped bayonet drills for "Combatives" which uses a much more padded Pugil Stick.

My 1970 Landing Party Manual includes Drill (Manual of Arms) for Bayonet Port Arms, and Bayonet Guard Arms (From Port Arms or Bayonet PA, left foot moves on step forward, rifle butt to right hip, and weapon presented directly forward with bayonet at shoulder high).

Impressive collection. What no Pugel stick training? How are you going to know how to knock your enemies' teeth out or smash his skull with your rifle.

 

[Conelrad]

Get a cheap one for each of your rifles. When going out shooting, affix same.

When not shooting, just stick it in the ground.

You're never without an expedient gun rack.

Conelrad

As an added benefit of a bayonet, it makes a wonderful litter control item: After the shooting is over, just go around impaling all the pop cans, cartridge boxes, and other jetsam until the blade is full. Call attention, then send a round downrange; all that crap will just be turned into confetti.

 

[hutch51]

3 Mosin 91s, all with bayonets.
Yes I have poked a hole in the ceiling
Wife was not impressed.

 

[drobs]

3 Mosin 91s, all with bayonets.
Yes I have poked a hole in the ceiling
Wife was not impressed.

Handy to keep near the living room couch. For those time that you loose your TV remote.

 

[Conelrad]

Had a friend use a 12ga on his TV. Changed the channel permanently...

 

[entropy]

My M91 and M91/30 Mosins each have correct bayonets for them. I do not have one for my Turkish Mauser, though I do have bayonets for two rifles I don't have; a FR8/CETME bayonet, (came free with an ammo order years ago) and a Wegner SIG AMT bayonet I picked up at a gun show because I liked the design.

 

[Some_Mook]

3 Mosin 91s, all with bayonets.
Yes I have poked a hole in the ceiling
Wife was not impressed.

There is a universal truth, and commonality to things that do not impress the wives.

 

[CapnMac]

What no Pugel stick training?

They were getting too many injuries during Boot, some of which precluded further Military Service.
There were also any number of allegations of the training being used punitively (there always are those, sadly).
And the old Sticks were not well padded, more "blunted" and the safety gear worn was pretty minimal.
The modern sticks are very padded, even along the shafts, and the trainees wear a lot more safety gear.

 

[Hookeye]

Here’s my contribution to the pictorials. SIG SWAT 556. Came with the bayonet. My father (ret 82nd AA and 101st) used to say knives don’t jam. I suppose that goes for bayonets as well.

View attachment 1202162

And on the topic of bayonets in general: The last bayonet charge by a US military unit was in Korea in 1951 led by the officer in charge Army Capt Lewis Lee Millet, a native son of Mechanicsville Maine. For his gallantry he was awarded the MoH.

He came back on the 50th anniversary of the charge in 2001 and received a hero’s escort up Bayonet Hill (Hill 180) on Osan Air Base, South Korea. I saw the peacekeepers spitting spent blank brass like rain that day as they rolled towards the top with him on one.

Looks like the same one used on the StG 57

 

[Bronco72]

Better to have a bayonet and not need it than it is to need a bayonet and not have it

 

[Ignition Override]

They sure do look purdy and cool.

But outside of being in any actual combat zone the main benefit of having a bayonet might be for the unfortunate day when a health issue means no more shooting.

Reading about “…with bayo included “ could be what allows us , —or a lonely widow—, to finally sell a specific rifle, when no other family member or friend actually wants to own the gun (it only represents quick $$).

 

[Armybrat]

Why not?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Get a cheap one for each of your rifles. When going out shooting, affix same.

When not shooting, just stick it in the ground.

You're never without an expedient gun rack.

Conelrad

No such things as cheap bayonets anymore, unless they are Chinesium replicas. To be fair, there are also some very good Chinesium replicas out there, but they aren't much cheaper than the genuine article.

 

[CapnMac]

No such things as cheap bayonets anymore

Some of the Swiss, French, & Spanish bayonets are "affordable," when they can be found. The Rarity keeps the twenty-buck blades stuck around forty or so.

I've not kept up with German or Japanese bayonets, presuming that "if I have to ask, I can't [won't] afford it."

Brit bayonets have kept pace with US ones, by and large.

US ones are not priced for the faint of heart.
A Model of 1905 in decent shape will set you back a couple benjamins the scabbard half that again (and that's the low side of 'average' and presuming a lot of shopping for best deals).
Bayonet M-1 will be within US$10-15 of a 1905.
The war-modified 1905s, 16" blades cut down to ten inches, used to be cheap due to lack of demand, but, now they are seen as rarities.
The M-2 bayonet for the Johnson rifle is it's own galaxy.
The M-3 was never a bayonet, but a "trench knife"--three's an entire universe dedicated to faking these.
Bayonet M-4 are not crazy, decent military examples are about there, in the US$50-75 range. Finding them with decent scabbards is complicated, though. (The official sheath was the Scabbard M-7, which became notorious for having its tip break or wear off; these were supplanted by the M-7A1, which had a protective metal tip--and stay in service to around 1980.)

The bayonet M-5 used to be middling common, but was also popular for not having the muzzle ring. They were also the least produced ten inch Garand bayonet. Best ones to find are the seabag/duffle bag/footlocker attic finds, as they will be paired with scabbards in decent shape; you'll likely need a buck and a half, though.

Bayonet M-6 was for the M-14, a decent number were made, but they are not terrible common in the surplus market. Hard part is finding a decent M-7A1 scabbard for them. Which is complicated as The Book said you were to wear the scabbbard fit to the M-56 e-tool carrier:

Which meant the tips were vulnerable to being battered by e-tool handles.

Bayonet M-7 is dirt common, but not dirt cheap. The fact that any number of other nations built M-7 for their own M-16s means low-priced international examples are almost as common as PRC knock-off examples. Again, the hard part is finding a decent scabbard.

The less said about the M-8 the better

The M-9 is now afield in some quantity, and from new-in-box to just-back-from-the-sandbox condition, and without a great variation in the price. Scabbards are often in rough shape, or are separated from the belt clip. It does not help that there are a number of examples out there that were not military contract, but for general sale. That latter is doubly true for the M-10.

 

[lysanderxiii]

(The official sheath was the Scabbard M-7, which became notorious for having its tip break or wear off; these were supplanted by the M-7A1, which had a protective metal tip--and stay in service to around 1980.)

I think you mean M8 and M8A1 scabbard.

The main difference between the M8 and M8A1 was the addition of the wire double hook so it could hang on the belt as well as slip over it. The metal reinforcing tip was a late addition, happening sometime in 1960.


(The M8A1 scabbard is a reproduction.)

 

[Thomasss]

Bayonet vs. Watermelon.I like bayonets,

I am glad he shot the watermelon. I had a bayonet placed on my Garand at the start of a military match. The clock started by me stabbing Ivan, the Russian dummy with it. Then I found out the hard way, it changed the POI and I shot crap. The year before I took first place for the semi-auto class w/o meeting Ivan close up.

 

[AgentPickle]

I am glad he shot the watermelon. I had a bayonet placed on my Garand at the start of a military match. The clock started by me stabbing Ivan, the Russian dummy with it. Then I found out the hard way, it changed the POI and I shot crap. The year before I took first place for the semi-auto class w/o meeting Ivan close up.

Thank you for actually watching the video. Just know that if that watermelon had half a chance, it would kill you and everyone you loved!