BE-86

[arisch]

I've found CFE pistol to be lacking, I prefer winchester autocomp. But as I stated previously, it likes to be pushed. I know a lot of guys use it to make major in 9mm and it shines in the higher pressures. For BE-86 and 45 it's the same, push it towards the max. If looking for something else that can do 9, 40, & 45 I'd look to Hp38/Win231 for target fodder. It's always displayed good accuracy for me. I like it better than regular old bullseye.

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[sellersm]

Althouth my last results were lack luster, i pushed up my charge a couple of tenths and am starting to like how it reacts in my 45 with Xtreme 185 FP. Just loaded some 200gr FP (xtreme) and liked those also. Trying to find a nice 45acp powder besides the CFE i am using for my 40 and 9.

If you can find it, may want to try Ramshot Silhouette, if BE-86 won't meet your needs.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

titegroup tiger,
I am glad to see you have stumbled onto some of the BE-86 we began shipping into distribution recently. Sorry to take so long to get it to market, but we have been under siege demand wise for all of our existing products in both OEM and canister markets that marketing didn't want to prioritize this new product (for canister). We will continue to get some out as we can, so if you ask for it, those orders should pull through.
I am very confident you will really like this powder. It is the same magic formulation as Bullseye(R) and Power Pistol(R), and virtually the exact geometry of Power Pistol. It is a little faster burning that Power Pistol though, and very similar to Unique(R), burn speed wise. As you mentioned, we have added flash suppressant to this product to moderate the flash response, whereas we do not for Power Pistol. BE-86(TM) is a high energy propellant though, so do not expect it to be flashless. The FS added moderates what would be maybe a basketball or bushel basket size bloom for a stout load of Power Pistol down to more like a baseball or cueball. I find it very acceptable from the shooter's position, and we have several OEM's that use this material for duty applications.
So to summarize, the "so what" on BE-86 is that it has the outstanding ballistics and ignitability of the BE series powders, in Unique burnrate, with great metering characteristics, with FS to moderate the flash bloom.
We worked up a good amount of data for this powder, but if we have left any applications out that you think might be interesting, send a message in through our "ask the expert" on our website, www.alliantpowder.com
Thank you for your interest in our new pistol powder BE-86.
Shoot well,
Paul
__________________
Please be aware that I am an employee of Vista Outdoor, and the views expressed in my posts are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Vista Outdoor.

Good information, but just to clarify since Bullseye is a pretty fast powder #13 on Hodgdon's list and Unique is #31, I was curious about BE-86 comparison to Bullseye, that they were the same magic formulation. How does that work?

Thanks

 

[arisch]

So far everything I've read is it sits between unique and power pistol. So who knows lol!

I will say i like silhouette, I've used it a little bit in 9mm, but more in 45. Even though it's a slower powder, it gives top velocities especially if you follow ramshot's data. In the 45 section I played with the plus p loadings, and in my Springfield armory range officer, I was hitting 1007 fps with a 230gr gold dot. I was astonished. Burns very clean and one of the lowest flash powders available.

In my shield, and a Taurus snub nose with 38spl +p almost just a small line compared to a ball of flame.

Not a powder I'd go for just target ammo, I feel that silhouette is more for hollowpoints or low light situations.



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[Tree Rat]

Great posts arish. Glad to see someone else exploring true performance of this powder.

I worked up to 6.2 grains with 124's. Saw between 1230-1250 fps from a Glock 19.
Settled on 6.0 with an X-treme 124 HP plated. This load is absolutely the most accurate load I've ever developed and runs around 1200-1220 fps. It's both a great defense dupe load and supreme target load.

All the loads I have ever chrono'ed in BE-86 exhibit exceptional low spreads and SD's. Not unusual to see less than 15-20 fps in 10 shot strings. This consistency certainly manifests itself on paper.

Meters great, low flash, exceeds all the hype and more.


TR

 

[arisch]

Tree rat, I agree. The properties BE-86 exhibit are great for target and self defense ammo.

In 9mm, it's been superb. Great velocities in the common weights. Especially the 124gr pills. 147's are a close second if not tied. I ran my 147's at 5.4gr. A .3 increase compared to alliants load data online.

In 40 s&w I have limited testing, using 180gr & 165gr gold dots. It did okay, but just wasn't getting as good deviations as the 9mm. 180gr fmj's weren't to horrible, but nothing one can't use another powder for. It just wasn't as standing out as good.

In 45acp it was good, close if not tied to 9mm with 230gr gold dots. At 7.0gr and OAL of 1.205" velocity was a high of 942 and a low of 933fps. It was a plus p load, alliants data called for 6.9gr and I chose the 7.0gr because my powder measure just preferred throwing the 7.0gr lol.

I wish alliant would disclose the pressure figures, as I have a good feeling those loads can be pushed further.

All the signs I've seen when working up to my mentioned loads, shows that the pressure is still fairly low. When i barely get case expansion out of my 9mm shield, which has less than ideal case support, I can draw conclusions that the pressure is nowhere near max lol.

Getting 1250fps out of a 124gr 9mm isn't something to complain about. That's damn good velocity!

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[Tree Rat]

I've tested extensively in 40 primarily with 180's.

Worked all the way to max @ 6.5 and settled on
On a fairly modest 6.2 grains with a Berry or X-treme plated FP. Usually yields around 1030 fps or so from a Glock 22 and right at 1000 from a Glock 23. I still see low spreads in these loads but not quite as low as the 9mm. For 9mm and 40 I try to keep them around the same velocities as the HST loads I prefer for serious work.

Found a real nice load in 45 with 230 RN @ 6.8, again with great consistency and accuracy @ just around 900 fps from a Glock 21 and 41.

I"ll burn the rest of my Power Pistol when I'm in the mood but think I have found a great performance and target powder for the 9mm, 40, and 45. BTW....I never really gravitated to Unique for reasons I won't go into here.....too many emotions about the stuff..
... LOL. I call BE-86 the 21st century Unique that solves all the issues I had with the stuff with even better ballistics.

TR

 

[Tree Rat]

Wanted to post some pics of some groups but are too large for the site.

TR

 

[arisch]

Tree rat, good points! Im not saying my results with the 40 were horrible, on par with factory stuff, just wasn't as tight as the 9mm or 45.

I can say it's probably my new goto powder from now on. Not as economical as bullseye or my old standby of win231, but being that I can switch between target loads and defensive loads with minimal changes is a plus.

Actually been using the Rocky mountain reloading new 115gr fmj and 6.3gr BE-86 and it's been very good. Haven't chronographed them yet, but has been fantastic. Over the weekend did 200 fmj's and without having to fiddle with changing powder charge, swapped right to some 124gr gold dots.

As a side note, check out the Rocky mountain reloading 115gr fmj's, I got them for 57 per thousand and they are extremely consistent in weight and size. Been extremely happy with them.

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[cali_blues]

...

Actually been using the Rocky mountain reloading new 115gr fmj and 6.3gr BE-86 and it's been very good. Haven't chronographed them yet, but has been fantastic. Over the weekend did 200 fmj's and without having to fiddle with changing powder charge, swapped right to some 124gr gold dots.

As a side note, check out the Rocky mountain reloading 115gr fmj's, I got them for 57 per thousand and they are extremely consistent in weight and size. Been extremely happy with them.

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That 6.3gr must be pretty snappy. I worked up to 5.9gr with the RMR 115fmj, and stopped there because groups got bigger and it just wasn't fun to shoot.

Not to thread jack, but how on earth did you get the 115 fmj for $57/k ??

 

[Walkalong]

That 6.3gr must be pretty snappy

I would think so, since it is over the max Alliant shows on their website for 124 Gr FMJ. It is max for the 115 Gr JHP and slightly over for 115 Gr FMJ.

It looks like you picked the highest charge shown for a 115 Gr bullet and then just substituted 124s in there. That is not a good idea.

Y'all be careful out there.

 

[arisch]

That 6.3gr must be pretty snappy. I worked up to 5.9gr with the RMR 115fmj, and stopped there because groups got bigger and it just wasn't fun to shoot.

Not to thread jack, but how on earth did you get the 115 fmj for $57/k ??

If you check a few pages I explained I worked up to that loading with 124gr speer gold dots. There was no jumping to it. I even explained that the case expansion is less than factory cases, even in my 9mm shield. A factory speer 124+p has a huge bulge in the case when fired through that gun, however the 6.3gr charge has little to no change in case size around the web.

I stated I bought the bullets from rocky mountain reloading. They may have went up a couple bucks, but they have been extremely consistent in weight and size.

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[arisch]

On a side note, I'm only .4gr over, and recoil isn't horrible. Rather nice and easy for follow up shots.

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[LiveLife]

arisch, what OAL/COL were you using with 115 gr FMJ/124 gr Gold Dots and pistols?

Alliant load data used 1.120" and if longer OAL were used with larger than .355" groove diameter barrels, could reduce chamber pressures.

And what 124 gr bullet did you use to get 1250 fps?

 

[Walkalong]

on a side note, I'm only .4gr over

Almost 7% over max.

If you want to go there it's none of my business, but when you causally throw it out here that you simply substituted 124s without adjusting the charge or working back up, it is, as we have many inexperienced readers who can be influenced by such postings. 1250 FPS is smoking with a 124 Gr in 9MM. It takes a slow powder to get there under max pressure.

We like to keep it safe here.

 

[RedHawk357Mag]

So the other day I was working up some BE 86 loads and I really didn't believe my chronograph. Blue sheet with orange aiming spots. So retested today, green aim spots. Data is pretty similar. I have not questioned this chronograph before with other loads or calibers. Bullets as cast are 162 grns. Alliant data is for 158grn RNFP. The loads are safely used in my RedHawk. Anyone else think my chronograph is lying in spite of no drama with any other loads? Or am I missing something here?
Edited for more information. Lot number ce 0519 395 Y012116. RP brass 1.280"-1.283" bullets sized to.358" crimp supplied by Lee Collet Crimp Die as per instructions.
Upside down pictures are just annoying, sorry about that.


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[Toprudder]

So the other day I was working up some BE 86 loads and I really didn't believe my chronograph. Blue sheet with orange aiming spots. So retested today, green aim spots. Data is pretty similar. I have not questioned this chronograph before with other loads or calibers. Bullets as cast are 162 grns. Alliant data is for 158grn RNFP. The loads are safely used in my RedHawk. Anyone else think my chronograph is lying in spite of no drama with any other loads? Or am I missing something here?
Edited for more information. Lot number ce 0519 395 Y012116. RP brass 1.280"-1.283" bullets sized to.358" crimp supplied by Lee Collet Crimp Die as per instructions.

Redhawk,

With 7.6gn BE86 and plated 158gn SWC bullets from Xtreme, I was getting 1090fps, 17.5sd, and 45 spread. That was from a 5" barrel on my GP100.

 

[RedHawk357Mag]

Topprudder... From my math... Case length, 1.283" plus bullet length, .710", equals 1.993" minus 1.590" loaded cartridge length, gives me around, .403" seating depth. I think my additional seating depth might account for our differences. Thanks for lending me your experience with it.
My barrel length is 5.5".

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[Potatohead]

Along the lines of what Walkalong was saying above, I have to make sure to remember it every time-I'm pretty sure the Alliant site lists max charges, or at least recommends backing down 10% from what is listed (to start ). Kind of odd that they do it that way, but worth noting either way imo.

 

[arisch]

Almost 7% over max.

If you want to go there it's none of my business, but when you causally throw it out here that you simply substituted 124s without adjusting the charge or working back up, it is, as we have many inexperienced readers who can be influenced by such postings. 1250 FPS is smoking with a 124 Gr in 9MM. It takes a slow powder to get there under max pressure.

We like to keep it safe here.

Please review my original post...I'm not just throwing these out there, nor did I just swap bullets. I carefully followed good loading practices and worked them up, watching carefully for signs of high pressure. I explained right from the get go that these were worked up in my gun and to use the listed loads per alliant!

(A copy of my original post)


Warning, I worked these loads up carefully in my guns. However please follow precautions and use the listed data provided by Alliant, and all instructions.<br />
<br />
I've worked up two loads that have performed amazing. Using Be-86 and 124gr and 147gr speer gold dot bullets.<br />
<br />
For the 124 I worked up and settled on 6.3gr, winchester small pistol primer and 1.120" OAL.<br />
<br />
Using a Glock 19 gen 4 I had amazing accuracy. Once I noticed that the cases were barely expanded, .387-.388 just above the extractor groove, I decided to send some through my chronograph.<br />
<br />
1250 low<br />
1259 high<br />
<br />
I thought maybe my readings were a fluke so I tried again. Almost identical results. <br />
<br />
So I ran three full mags through my shield 9mm which has horrible case support and max expansion on the case was .389"<br />
I have to believe it's one of the best performing loads I have used.<br />
<br />
The 147gr used 5.4gr, winchester small pistol primers, and 1.125" OAL.<br />
<br />
Loads chronographed at 1050fps from the Glock 19. Case expansion was around .389". Mild recoil, and just as accurate as the 124gr.<br />
<br />
When sizing I use a RCBS full length sizer that just above the extractor groove, measures .386". So again I have found a hell of a velocity and powder combination that works wonderfully for me. And with the numbers I've seen feel I'm nowhere over pressure.<br />
<br />
The factory speer 124gr +p load expands to .391" in my glock 19 and to .392-.393" in my shield.<br />
<br />
I like the powder to the point I picked up 16lbs worth here locally in central Ohio.<br />
<br />
Side note: the two cartridges i mentioned I used new Star line brass.<br />
<br />
<br />
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[Walkalong]

Please review my original post...I'm not just throwing these out there, nor did I just swap bullets. I carefully followed good loading practices and worked them up, watching carefully for signs of high pressure. I explained right from the get go that these were worked up in my gun and to use the listed loads per alliant!

Actually been using the Rocky mountain reloading new 115gr fmj and 6.3gr BE-86 and it's been very good. Haven't chronographed them yet, but has been fantastic. Over the weekend did 200 fmj's and without having to fiddle with changing powder charge, swapped right to some 124gr gold dots.

All I have to go by is the written word.

And I don't care if you worked it up to over max, it's over max and I will continue to be cautious and advise others to do so as well. I care more about safety than a few FPS. Anyone can load over max, get more velocity, and say it is "appears" "safe" in their gun. Without pressure equipment you don't know.

Please be careful out there, and humor me here at THR where we try to be very careful about posting over max load data.

 

[papaairbear]

I apologize arisch, but I also have to express my concern about posting handload data that exceeds published maximums on a public forum. It can and is done, as you have written, by some experienced reloaders. But it could mislead a less experienced handloader into making a mistake that would damage their gun and/or themselves. My .02

 

[eo1bart]

I recently bought 8#'s of BE-86 and decided to try and load it to mimic my old standby for the .45 auto target load, which is a 200gr. LSWC (#68 H&G clone) over 4.0gr Bullseye, case OAL 1.25

Here are the results;

BE-86; 5.1gr
1- 769fps
2- 748fps
3- 736fps
4- 752fps
5- 745fps

avg: 750fps
SD: 12
Spread: 33

This was very accurate with light recoil in my Government 1911

 

[LiveLife]

arisch, same here on careful powder work up, especially approaching near max load data and beyond. Can you go over max and still be safe? Yes BUT under certain circumstances like reloading for 9mm Major where 124 gr bullet is pushed to over 1400 fps. But this is done only with certain powders that are not spikey with pressure with longer OAL/COL, brass are often discarded after first firing and barrels with fully supported chambers help (it's unfortunate the often unmarked discarded 9 Major brass are picked up by other unsuspecting reloaders/range staff and reused/sold ).

As Walkalong and others posted, THR is used by many reloaders, particularly new reloaders who may lack the knowledge and experience to know when to push the limits and when not to. BTW, here's the THR forum rule on posting extra heavy loads - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=27444

For me, concern with loading at max and beyond lies with reloading variables like quality/condition of brass, number of times brass was reloaded to undergo work hardening, whether the brass was shot in less supported chambers with hot loads (like 9 Major) to experience bulging/thinning/weakening of case wall and made to look like new with wet tumbling, etc.

Keep in mind that published load data were tested with NEW brass that handle chamber pressures better than used/mixed range brass we use (likely by new reloaders) that are often work hardened and brass will likely experience case wall failure/rupture instead of expanding/deforming to contain the pressure.

Just because higher than published max loads worked safely in your brass and barrels for 20 years does not mean it will work the same in a different barrel with varying chamber dimensions and case base support, especially with different brass that may have been reloaded several times and got work hardened and case wall thinned/weakened from less supported chambers. The same exact load which worked fine for you may cause case wall failure/rupture for another reloader on the first round fired from a different pistol.

Walkalong's sentiment may come from too many "Funny thing happened at the range today" threads where case wall failure/rupture resulted from small KaBooms (without damage to pistol) to catastrophic failures (with permanent injury to body). Many of these incidents were experienced by seasoned reloaders who took care not to exceed published max charges but when root cause analysis/discussion took place, were determined that likely combination of reloading factors like work hardened, thinned/weakened brass and bullet setback compressing powder charge resulted in way over max pressures.

For this and many other reasons, I suggest to new reloaders with mixed range brass, to use powders that are less spikey at mid to high range for some pressure buffer until they are more familiar with the reloading process as stacking of reloading variables could raise pressures in a hurry, especially with small internal volume case like 9mm. If they want to work up near max/max load data, I suggest using verified once-fired brass or new brass.

 

[bbqreloader]

bart, thanks for posting some 45 info. Still testing loads in my 45acp. Ran some ladder tests using xtreme plated 200gr fp-6.1 6.3 6.5, oal1.200. Liked the 6.3. Getting to chrono the loads is a whole different matter, take awhile to get it done.