Bequeath legal guns out of the family and state?

[Cudda]

So I've lived in California all of my life (your condolences are appreciated) and I own legal, registered firearms. Luckily I'm in a Pro 2A county.

My best friend lives in Alabama and though I hope to be alive another 50 years +, I need to be smart about this and make certain that if I depart prematurely my guns don't end up in anyone's hands but the people they are intended for.

One such gun I would like to leave to my buddy in Alabama. So my question is, do I need to leave it to a family member with instructions to legally transfer it to my friend?... or can I safely add him to my trust and be assured that the state won't get their sticky fingers on it instead?

I know all the transfer laws pertaining but not after I am deceased. Thanks in advance!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

You can lawfully bequeath a weapon to an out-of-state friend in your will This is one of the few times a firearm may be transferred across state lines without needing to go through an FFL and the recipient may take possession from the estate directly.....provided of course that no state laws in either involved state prohibit such an action. Presuming you name an executor he/she would be responsible for carrying out your wishes. Now this is title 1 firearms....since you mention a trust you leave me to wonder if this is an NFA weapon? Your best bet is to consult a lawyer in any case.

 

[JTHunter]

Cudda - you might also have that friend contact an estate attorney in Alabama to work with your attorney as they "speak the same language". That way they can check the laws at both ends and avoid "surprises".
As Neo-Luddite said - "Your best bet is to consult a lawyer in any case."

Good luck !

 

[Cudda]

Thanks people. And no NFA involved in this situation.

The "Trust" isn't a joint firearms ownership trust. Just part of my estate that will help to alleviate some of the post-deceased headaches and delays that are all too common. (Especially in Cali)

Of all the legal information out there regarding transfer both pre and post death, this is one of the very few bits of information that I just couldn't find. I'll certainly have it all cleared by a lawyer but to put it together initially It's nice to have my information straight.

Again, thank you for your information and time.

 

[Cudda]

Looking back.. I believe it will still have to go through at least one FFL (likely at the receiving end) for the DROS.

 

[cjwils]

What is a DROS?

If they are regular guns and the will is in order, then I don't think an FFL is needed unless a state requires it. I hope someone with more time and energy than I have will quote the exact federal law on this.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...do I need to leave it to a family member with instructions to legally transfer it to my friend?...

If you want to minimize the possibility of complications always do things formally -- through a will or trust. Talk with your lawyer about setting things up in your trust to assure that your wishes are implemented.

What is a DROS?....

It means Dealer Record of Sale. It's unique to California and would be part of the process were the OP transferring guns to a California resident.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Talk with your lawyer about setting things up in your trust to assure that your wishes are implemented.....

By the way, it's a good idea to do one's estate planning through a lawyer. Among other things, your lawyer will monitor changes to the laws and let you know if changes to your estate plan would be desirable when there is a change to the law.

 

[Cudda]

The DROS is just one of the many hoops I have to jump through while doing a somersault holding a martini (shaken, not stirred) and juggling flaming swords with a live weasel in my pants to exercise my constitutional rights here in California.

In almost any other state the question I posed here would likely answer itself. As it is it's a full time job of any FFL just to keep up with the idiocy that passes for common sense around here.

I have the mass of my estate set in a general will with all items and finances split evenly between my adult children so I didn't have to worry about where the guns went (my girls work well together) but the change prompted a LOT of foresight just because of all the conditions and sub-conditions of this moronic state. It's even a pain for the lawyers.. so to that end I've spent weeks checking and double checking the facts so that instead of looking to FIND said facts, my lawyer just has to verify my findings... plus I like to know these facts on my own as well.

Again, thank you all for your input.

I'm fairly up on much of Cali's gun laws so if anyone has any questions I'll be more than happy to give my non-law degree input. If I don't know that it's a fact I will make certain to either say so or verify the information if I have the time.

 

[TRX]

When I made my will I wrote an addendum explaining in general what the NFA is and the possible downsides of NFA firearm ownership, and that they needed to find the *current* laws to see if anything significant had changed since I wrote the document. Then they had the option to either accept or refuse the bequest. If they refused, that item would be added to the bequest for the next person on the list, and so on.

Since each person on the list has at least *some* firearms already, I decided they'd have to sort out things like magazine limits, "features", or other issues on their own. My crystal ball has too much snow to look into the future any more...

 

[bearcreek]

In almost any other state the question I posed here would likely answer itself. As it is it's a full time job of any FFL just to keep up with the idiocy that passes for common sense around here.

Don't count on that. Here's the OP from another thread recently posted on here.

I am a Georgia resident. I brought a rifle with me to Indiana to gift. Both of us went to the local FFL and were told we did not need to do any paperwork, transfer, or 4473 because it was a long gun. I said I wanted to anyway and the response was that it would be a real pain in the butt so I left with my rifle.

Correct info or no?

There's no reason to just assume an FFL knows what they're talking about.

 

[Rule3]

Just a question on this. Why would it NOT be required to go through a FFL and all the background check stuff??. What if the receiving friend is a prohibited person? Just asking??

 

[bearcreek]

Just a question on this. Why would it NOT be required to go through a FFL and all the background check stuff??. What if the receiving friend is a prohibited person? Just asking??

Because that's how the law is written. Just because it's a law doesn't mean it needs to be logical or consistent.

 

[Warp]

Just a question on this. Why would it NOT be required to go through a FFL and all the background check stuff??. What if the receiving friend is a prohibited person? Just asking??

Because sometimes it's not. Because that which is not prohibited is permitted. Because the law only requires for lawful private transfers that you have no reason to belive they are a prohibited person

 

[Warp]

Don't count on that. Here's the OP from another thread recently posted on here.
There's no reason to just assume an FFL knows what they're talking about.

Yup. Not only might they be wrong, you can know they are wrong and tell them to do it right and still be turned down.

 

[Rule3]

Because that's how the law is written. Just because it's a law doesn't mean it needs to be logical or consistent.

Where is it written(what law) that it can be transferred via a will or trust, to a non relative out of state?? Seems it would be different than I will my baseball card collection to someone.??

 

[Rule3]

Because sometimes it's not. Because that which is not prohibited is permitted. Because the law only requires for lawful private transfers that you have no reason to belive they are a prohibited person

Only within in a State with State residents that allow transfers person to person. I can transfer or sell any gun to any Florida resident if I do not believe they are prohibited. Heck I do not even need a receipt.

I can not transfer one to you (n Ga) without a FFL.

 

[bearcreek]

Where is it written(what law) that it can be transferred via a will or trust, to a non relative out of state?? Seems it would be different than I will my baseball card collection to someone.??

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 Read 18 U.S. Code 922 (a)(3) carefully. I'll quote it here for you. I've bolded the part that answers your question.

(3)
for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

 

[bearcreek]

Where is it written(what law) that it can be transferred via a will or trust, to a non relative out of state?? Seems it would be different than I will my baseball card collection to someone.??

Also, there is nothing in any Federal gun law relating to transfers that differentiates between relatives and non relatives in any way, including the section that I quoted. For some reason it's very common for people in the "gun community" to have the misconception that transfers between relatives fall under different rules in some ways. They do not.

 

[Frank Ettin]

As I’ve said before, law is non-intuitive. One can’t just “ figure it out.” One needs to look things up, do the research.

 

[TikkaShooter]

Now this is title 1 firearms....since you mention a trust you leave me to wonder if this is an NFA weapon? Your best bet is to consult a lawyer in any case.

I have 2 NFA weapons. We live in GA and my grandson lives in NC and he is on the trust and is designated in my will to inherit them. I believe I need to talk to a lawyer; the question is in which state?

 

[CapnMac]

Seems it would be different than I will my baseball card collection to someone.??

That might be a side-effect of the 50 years we've had GCA '68 which made virtually everything gun-related illegal, and put the onus on gun owners to prove their innocence before being allowed to buy.

 

[1911 guy]

[QUOTE="CapnMac, post: 11322039, member: 91304"
]That might be a side-effect of the 50 years we've had GCA '68 which made virtually everything gun-related illegal and put the onus on gun owners to prove their innocence before being allowed to buy.[/QUOTE]

At what point do we begin properly framing the argument? We debate jots and tittles when the entire premise of gun laws is abhorrent to the Constitution. That's right, we'll just go along to get along until every governor in every state threatens every citizen with armed force. Because "Molon Labe" is just a website slogan. Someone has legally owned property they wish to bequeath upon their demise. End of story. Anything else is a rabbit trail leading us further from the Founders intent. I, for one, would rather fight this battle with ballot boxes, soapboxes and peaceful non-compliance. Because we are witnessing what happens when we accept the false premise of gun control.

 

[bearcreek]

At what point do we begin properly framing the argument? We debate jots and tittles when the entire premise of gun laws is abhorrent to the Constitution.

The "debates" about the nuances of gun law only happen because many people seem incapable of competent, rapid use of online search engines. I am 100% against the vast majority of gun laws that we discuss here, but that doesn't mean that it isn't critically important to know those laws. You have to know your enemy.

 

[1911 guy]

You have to know your enemy, but use that information to defeat them, not acquiesce to their infringement.
Events in Virginia have shown this to be a zero-sum game. They have shown their hand. We either state (and mean) a return to constitutional government or roll over right now. One of the methods of protest is non-compliance with unconstitutional laws.