Beretta Laramie

[ncsu]

I'm about to purchase a Beretta Laramie. When I was a boy I was given a toy top break revolver and I've been obsessed with Schofields ever since. I realize many say that the top break design is weak, and not to use +P loads. A lot of this comes from the poor reproductions offered by Cimmaron a few years back. The Beretta and Uberti model 3's have significantly beefed up barrels and latches. I don't want to get into a Schofield vs. SAA debate as I intend to own both shortly.

This revolver is obviously not the first gun I would pick up for home defense and carry, I have others for that, but I would like a back woods gun that could drop wildlife, and if the situation called for, still be effective as a personal defense round. It's offered in .45LC and .38 special. I assume the +P rule on top breaks still applies for the .38 special model. If not, which would be more effective, +P .38 special rounds or standard .45LC rounds. If I can't use +P rounds, how effective are the standard(non-cowboy) .45LC rounds. I would like a round that can reach out and drop a target at up to 75-85 yards. Unfortunately, I'm not too informed on the effectiveness of a standard .45LC round, I know it's handloaded options are limitless. What's a good standard load .45LC round to look at for my purpose?

I think these new guns are much stronger than we give them credit for, and likely can handle more powerful rounds than we give them credit for, time will tell with other's experience. By the way, whether it matters or not, I'm looking at the 6.5" barrel model.

 

[mgregg85]

I'd go with the .45 LC, its got a lot of power over the .38 special and even the .38 special +p.

I too love the top break revolvers but unless taurus starts churning them out I won't be able to afford one for a while.

 

[buttrap]

The standard load in the .45 pretty much is the same as the .45 auto round on how it hits things. A big plus over most any .38 loading.

 

[Virginian]

Why did Beretta send Cimarron poor reproductions? And if they did, what have they changed since?
All the Schofield reproductions I have seen looked pretty nice.

 

[mec]

the first top breaks imported by Cimarron came from Armi San Marco. I don't know if they were "poor" or not, but ASM did have a reputation for shoddy work.

here's what Beretta says about strength:
"We have improved upon the 19th-Century original by reinforcing the top latch, thus making the revolver much more durable and ensuring you years and years of trouble-free enjoyment."

 

[ncsu]

yeah it was that exact quote from Beretta that had me wondering how much we might be underestimating the strength

 

[mainmech48]

Not to be pendantic but while all Schofields were No.3's, very few No.3's were Schofields. The Beretta Laramie is a slightly updated replica of the New Model No.3 of manufactured from 1878 to 1912.

Guys, no matter which model No.3 the replica mimics or how much better the quality of the steels and manufacturing techniques are now, it's still a basic design that's well over 100 years old and from when black powder was the only propellent. With the exception of a few now-rare New Models made for the .38-40 and .44-40 WCF cartridges (rare mostly because they didn't hold up under actual use and hence didn't sell well) all of the rounds the original designs used were quite mild - some even puny - by today's standards. No original No.3 was ever produced in .45 Colt nor do I know of any having been warranted for use with smokeless loads in any caliber before they were discontinued. Even Colt didn't warrant the SAA for use with smokless loads until after 1912.

When Navy Arms approached Uberti to produce a replica Schofield they insisted that the design be altered to accomodate the .45 Colt cartridge. This was entirely to make it more salable, as there had been no commercial .45 S&W ammo made since WWII.

Before we get to the "the .45 Colt ammo used a 40 gr. charge" fooraw again, that was by no means a universal standard for commercial factory loads and the original military standard was 30 grs. After February of 1876 goverment arsenals only produced .45 S&W cartridges for use in both revolvers. These had a 230 gr. bullet over 28 grs. of powder. Even when they started making .45 Colt ammo again using smokeless powder for the Colt New Service Model of 1909 it was loaded with a 250 gr. slug at 750 f/s, +/- 25 f/s on the boxes.

If we stipulate the use of BLACK POWDER loads not exceeding the levels of original military cartridges or their smokeless equivalents then the top-break replicas should hold up better than the originals. Even the .38 Spl. was originally a BP round, so let's include it too.

Modern SAAMI average max pressures for smokeless .45 Colt and .38 Spl. ammo are right at what would've been considered "proof" levels when the No.3 was designed. And in those days it wasn't possible to cram enough propellent into the case to exceed the built-in margins or choose the wrong one. IIRC, Uberti strongly recommends the use of lead bullets and "Cowboy" level loads. I'd be surprised if Beretta didn't do likewise.

You might not experience an immediate "spontaneous disassembly" firing jacketed and/or +P loads in your Laramie or Uberti replica but I'd bet that it'll break or need a rebuild in very short order if you insist on it. They may indeed be stronger than a 125+ year-old original, but not enough so to withstand that kind of abuse for long. The machine may be new but the design is still antique and never intended to withstand stresses on that order.

It's your money and they're your eyes and hands. You can do what you will with all of them.

 

[buttrap]

I dont think they could be much worse than a old Colt SAA for the toughness factor. They did go to the lighter mil load in .45 due to the colts breaking back then.

 

[mec]

Used to read that the Colts had the advantage of being usable with the maximum number of broken parts. you could make it work even if it was a long way from working right. Here's a scary thing about the first generation colts that you don't see on the modern copies- the dished out area in the frame right above the barrel /cylinder gap to keep black powder fouling from gumming up the action. The metal is super thin at this point

The cylinders are also very thin at the points of the locking lugs. Not uncommon to see little bulges inside the chambers because of the lack of metal at those points.
Hamiton Bowen said that the old colts had an expecte service life of about 3,000 rounds. He says that this wasn't much of a problem given the amount of shooting or lack there of during the service years of the Colt. Ive seen a lot of first generation Colts that have so much end float that the cylinder smacks into the rear of the barrel. These were black powder frame revolvers and I suspect a lot of the wear came from black powder loads. It was a big point in favor of the replaceable cylinder bushing.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I too have always had a soft spot for S&W #3s. Until, at a cowboy shoot one day when one of the shooters who was using a Navy Arms Schofield that opened up on every shot dumping all his ammo on the ground. That was the last time he used it for a shoot. Apparently, historically, this happened not infrequently.
Still, when I saw the ads for the Beretta Laramie, especially in .38, I was interested. But then I saw apair of nickel ones at a gun show. They looked to be quite robust - kind of like the Virginian Dragoon compared to a Colt SAA. To me, the Laramies are just too huge (and I have a collection of N-Frames!). And the fit and finish were acceptable but nothing to write home about. The price of the nickel Laramies were a grand each, which, after some research seemed to be fairly reasonable compared to the MSRP. But still, I paid that for my original Colt SAAs. I can't justify that kind of expense for a "replica." I wish S&W would make "Baby Russians" in .38 Special.

 

[don95sml]

The Beretta Laramie looks like a really great gun that I now wish I had waited for. Before its introduction I bought a Uberti .38 special with a 5" barrel (the Wells Fargo model). I love the gun, but it shoots about 4" left and 4" down from point of aim at 15 yards. The Laramie, with its adjustable sights, would have overcome that problem.