Beyond bolts: first semi-auto? Which Caliber??

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patentnonsense

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I like bolt action for long range and most hunting, but I've started thinking about getting an assault rifle or MBR for some shooting sports. I've shot several SKSses, but otherwise don't know much about this whole class of rifles.

The first question is which cartridge - .223, AK, or .308. I'm sort of inclined to get a nice .308 - tell me if that's stupid? It just feels more like a "real" rifle to me. I know there's more recoil with a .308, but I'm not too sensitive to recoil.

And unless .308 is a bad idea I'm inclined to go with a FAL, but talk to me - would an HK91 or a AR-10 be a better idea? I want something that's stunningly reliable, and as accurate as possible given that constraint.

Can't beat SKS for a cheap plinker, but I'm looking for something a bit more serious now...

Thanks for any polite suggestions!
 
Depends on what you need from the rifle...

.223 is a fine varminting round. It can be used for practical shooting competitions and tactical training, as well as home defense.

7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot (if you use Wolf/Barnaul/other Russian production ammo), especially if you don't reload, and it is effective at about the same ranges as .223. It can be used on varmints, but most of the time it isn't as accurate as .223.

.308 is not even in the same league as these rounds - it's a high-intensity cartridge that can take down fairly large game with good shot placement. It can also kill from 300-600 yards away, depending on the shooter.

For reliability you can't beat a FAL. Simple as that. Here is an article where the FAL was fired again and again, 10,000 rounds, with basically zero cleaning and in winter. Most good FALs will group around 2 MOA if the shooter is good.

http://www.dsarms.com/pdf/NINE_HOUR.pdf

Also consider FALs from places like Ohio Rapid Fire and such.

Of course, if you want accuracy, the AR series is the out-and-out winner. Hell, even the carbine length M4geries can group better than much bigger guns.
 
Thanks - that's very good info. I don't feel a need for another varminter, but I would like to do some tactical training and maybe competition - just wanted to make sure a 308 would be OK for that.

"Which FAL" is probably a whole 'nother thread - but I've seen other people say nice things about DSA.

Thanks,
 
Well, as a strict 'shooter' (not hunting or killing anything) its really hard to beat .223. Easy to shoot quickly and accuratly. I am a little curious why you arent considering the AR platform since its top of the pile in tactical shooting and competition for a good reason. Im a HUGE fan of AK's but, even i have to admit that .223 is largely wasted on the platform. Especially for recreational tactical type competitions. Its just outclassed by the ergonomics and inherent accuracy of its AR competitors.

Now if you wanted to ask about a rifle to take into harms way i wouldnt have enough good things to say about AKs.
 
NEW & PRICEY, but...an AR in .308 that takes FAL mags is the $hiznit!!! :cool:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bushmaster308.asp

308-World-front.jpg


If I didn't already have an AR10, I'd get one of these.
I may STILL get one of these! (someday)
 
No, I'm not ignoring AR - AR-10 is one of the 308s I mentioned, and I've sort of assumed that if I go with 223 AR would be the quality choice - I'm just skeptical about .223. I've got a .44M carbine I like for plinking, but an AR-15 seems a little expensive for that!

But I'm ignorant, and appreciate any suggestions.
 
And thanks Coyote! Yes I do need to get some hands-on - I'll bring some 308 and 223 ball for the next group-shoot we do around here.
 
Depends, too, on what your budget is. Sho' nuff HK91's have a sterling reputation for accuracy AND reliability, but oh, the cost! IMHO, there's nothing in the $500-$1000 range that resembles the HK. There're much more expensive ones, and some well under $500 (CETME, G3 parts guns). You can also run across relatively cheap FAL clones, and some quality ones built with DSA or Entreprise or Imbel receivers 'tween $500 and $1000. Mags for either genre are downright CHEEEP now. CTD had G3 mags for <$3.00 a pop. Can't imagine even with the AWB sunset they can get any cheaper.
 
A good FAL build(If you have the money, shy away from Century at all costs) or AR might be the best for a beginner in the Ebil Black Rifle category. I personally prefer the FAL myself. Mags are fairly cheap, it is extremely reliable, fairly easy to clean and use and it can be pretty accurate, if you are. A G3 clone from Century is a cheap option, it seems. But if you get a dud, you will have to pay to fix it/replace it. If you are willing to spend the time and effort to get one working they can be great rifles.

I suggest you try out what you want before you buy though. You, like many, like not like the ergonomic of the G3/CETME. Or the gas system of the FAL, etc.
 
In the vein of the AR-10 there's the DPMS and the new .308 from Bushmaster for accuracy without getting too horrificly expensive. I'm seriously considering picking up a Panther in .308 somewhere down the road. The Busmaster will be more expensive but can take FAL mags which are considerably cheaper than anything currently available for the AR-10s. If you plan on stocking up on magazines the extra expense will be offset somewhat and you'll still have Bushmaster quality.

I had a Century FAL (R1A1) that I picked up at a local shop. I waited for a particularly nice example to show up before I put down my hard earned money. After lightening the trigger return spring it turned out some pretty good groups. I wouldn't want to buy one sight unseen though.
 
For less than five bills you can get a Garand in .30-06 from the CMP For a few hundred more you cna get it changed to .308 Winchester.

But right out of the box a Garand should give you 3 to 4 MOA with mil-surp ammo & if you treat it correctly (proper lube, cleaning, ammo, etc...) it will be reliable to a fault. You can use it like that in High Power or J.C. Garand matches (J.C. Garand matches are only for '06 Garands). Your scores won't be astonishing but they'll improve as you get used to the matches.

You can also hunt with a Garand in either chambering & if your state doesn't allow semi-auto's you can get a modified gas plug to make your Garand a manually operated straight pull bolt action.

So even though it's not anything you listed I'd recommend looking into a Garand.
 
A realio-trulio Belgian-made FN is gonna be verrrrrrry pricey. If pure functionality is all you're after, I'd have a hard time getting off the bux to get the McCoy. For 1/2 to 2/3 the price, you can get a most excellent DSA that'll be just as reliable and accurate. But it won't be an FN.
 
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