Blackthorn Walking Stick

[Boattale]

That was my take also, however...………...

Hmm, now cedar is an interesting thought. It has the right rigidity for a walking stick, though certainly not the desired strength. And it does tend to grow in clumps, depending on the species, which would account for a root collar of that size on a stem that narrow. It’d make sense for the straightness of the stem also as interior stems in clumpy species tend to be straight. It would also make sense for the limbs. Good thought that.

Or..... maybe not. Don’t know.

My grandfather liked to carve and work with wood. I have all kinds of carved animals and other items he liked to make. Wonderful stuff to remember him by. So he may have made it just for his own enjoyment, or for my grandmother who had mobility issues.

My great grandfather and grandmother on that side of the family came over from Germany on the boat. If it came from Europe, it's likely to remain a mystery. You know, I really should ask my siblings if they remember the story. I rather assumed they wouldn't.

It might be a shoot that sprouted from a stump, and thus the larger knob than what one would otherwise expect. Which would also be a possible explanation for the cavities in the knob. So would your clumping theory.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I find all this stick discussion very interesting. I had no idea there were as many stick makers and sellers as there are. I've looked at a lot of them earlier tonight. While there are certainly some nice sticks out there, I have yet to see anything that makes me want to replace or even supplement the one I cut myself lo those many years ago. It fills the bill for me. I don't want a ball head, or a crook or an antler handle or a spike or a ferrule or even a rubber tip. Though if I ever get to the point that I need to use it indoors, I can see where a rubber tip would be nice. I've got two fake knees and one fake hip, the other hip is acting up now and will be replaced in the next year or two. So that time could come. For now though, what you see is what I got.

View attachment 868811

Honestly I think anything you make yourself will be optimal given the time you spent and your personal needs. I felt slightly silly spending money on this, but no readily accessible species I have here would work. Low grade conifers is all I got!

That’s a nice staff you have there.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Something I haven’t really mentioned, when I was 24 years old I managed to blow out three disks in my lower back. It’s been a problematic injury at times, and a physical condition that requires constant maintenance.

I NEED to walk nearly every day to keep it from going out on me. I walk 2.2 miles on my lunch break 4 or 5 days a week, and I try to walk on the weekend when time allows. There are times throughout the year when travel requires a lot of sitting. During those times I have intense debilitating pain. Standing up is a challenge.

As a result I have some pretty serious worries about my mobility as I age. A walking stick or cane is an eventuality based on the need to keep moving.

I figure why not get something with some style.

 

[hso]

If you're buying sticks for defensive purposes make certain to test them safely before betting your life on them. Wrapping a tree or post in several layers of carpet can make for a good striking dummy and test whether the cane you've gotten will hold up to full strength strikes. When doing this wear a face shield or at least safety glasses since loosing an eye to a shard of shattered wood would put you at an even greater disadvantage than the decision to get some cheap flashy cane that wasn't made for the purpose.

 

[uncle.45]

I have a Blackthorn copy touted as 'indestructible ' made by a company called Cold Steel.
It is made of a polymer resin that is just a little flexible and is tough as can be.
For only $50 or so, it is hard to beat for a walking stick/weapon.

 

[Kleanbore]

I would love to have a genuine blackthorn.

I have several. I needed a cane, and thouth the blackthorn would be nicer.

They vary. Only one of mine can be used for long walks without inducing hand fatigue and discomfort. Conventional canes are better.

I have a Cold Steel too, but i do not like it.

And those blackthorns from Ireland are called a Shillelagh ......

And so are Irish fighting sticks made from oak and other things

Of course out of curiosity I swung the knob into my palm, and yes, if you swung it at someone like you meant it I suspect breaking arms or legs would be achievable. I would think deflecting an attack and countering with strikes to appendages would be the best defense to avoid an attempted murder charge. Swinging at a head, or even an end on jab to organs could end someone's life I'd think.

That brings up a very important point. Before using one for self defense, it would be a very good idea to learn which methods are likely to be considered as using deadly force and which are not.

I now use Derby canes. One has a blackthorn shaft. They are much better for walking, and just as effective for self defense.

The best? A long oak stick from Brazos Walking Sticks. Better for defense, can support both hands, and long enough to support a camera with a strap around it.

 

[sgt127]

Picked this up about a year ago at a big swap meet. I made the end piece with replaceable rubber tip.

Seems extremely strong. Handle fits my hand well.

Bought it to carry as a legal impact weapon. A few months later, Texas made carrying a sap or blackjack legal.

Oh well, I’ll eventually need a cane anyway.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Only one of mine can be used for long walks without inducing hand fatigue and discomfort

I’m off work today so I’m working around the house. After seeing your post I tried putting most of my weight on my stick and I can see how your hand could get tired after a while if using it as a true cane. In one of the brief videos that the maker of my stick put on YouTube he notes that a large knob is beneficial if you really need to lean on it. I imagine it would distribute the pressure in your hand. However I would think that could weaken your grip on the knob.

Here is another maker I found who is based out of the town of Shillelagh, Ireland. He seems to offer more options with traditional cane style handles. This isn’t an endorsement as I haven’t had any dealings with them but I thought I’d share.

https://www.oldeshillelagh.com/store

 

[Kleanbore]

By the way, I once saw a video by Rob Pincus in which he demonstrated the advantages of crook-type canes for self defense.

Very enlightening.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

By the way, I once saw a video by Rob Pincus in which he demonstrated the advantages of crook-type canes for self defense.

Very enlightening.

Watched it yesterday. It is a good informative video.

To be clear, I’m not advocating a shillelagh or knob stick as the optimal stile of defensive stick/cane. It’s just what I can get away with given my relatively young age and lifestyle. For me, it’ll draw a minimal amount of attention. That’s important to me at this point.

I would say that actual blackthorn wood is a very good material to use though based on the example I just acquired.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think that Blackthorn cane is really nice to use as a cane.

 

[kemikos]

It is a Jacob staff for those who know what that is.

Does it have a detachable crosspiece, then? I'm curious now...

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Does it have a detachable crosspiece, then? I'm curious now...

A Jacob staff can be fitted with a brass fitting to attach various types of survey or forestry equipment. That’s why the top end is tapered, so it can be trimmed to size.

In the past, 30+ years ago, a forester would start from an established point, and then traverse the boundary of a stand of timber, recording precise directions and distance between points. The Jacob staff gets planted in the ground with the steel point to provide stability. Then a staff compass is attached, oriented, and used to establish directions. Afterward you take those compass bearings and distance numbers and use an established scale like say 1:15840, which equates out to 4” to the mile. You can then map and draw out the timber sale unit and determine its area.



This method became completely obsolete with the advent of GPS. And that technology has bounded forward in the last 15 years. I used to carry a unit that was about 9”x4”x3”, it weighed probably 4 pounds, and was attached to a backpack antenna. Now a good mapping grade GPS weighs a pound and isn’t much bigger than a smart phone.

I learned the old way in school and had to do what I described as part of an exam. Nobody does it this way anymore that I know off, but you can still find the equipment.

Many forestry offices still have some old Jacob staves sitting around. In fact I have a cabinet of old equipment that none of my young employees even know what they are anymore. If it ain’t digital they’ve never even heard of it. Makes me feel really old. I still use stereo pair air photos and a pocket stereoscopes to delineate timber sale units. They all want to use crap on their phones. It’s no wonder they can’t navigate on the ground without their toys.

So I can get away with having this in my office oddly enough, just because of my profession and my reputation of being an old school forester.

 

[SharpDog]

A Jacob staff can be fitted with a brass fitting to attach various types of survey or forestry equipment. That’s why the top end is tapered, so it can be trimmed to size.

In the past, 30+ years ago, a forester would start from an established point, and then traverse the boundary of a stand of timber, recording precise directions and distance between points. The Jacob staff gets planted in the ground with the steel point to provide stability. Then a staff compass is attached, oriented, and used to establish directions. Afterward you take those compass bearings and distance numbers and use an established scale like say 1:15840, which equates out to 4” to the mile. You can then map and draw out the timber sale unit and determine its area.

View attachment 869412

This method became completely obsolete with the advent of GPS. And that technology has bounded forward in the last 15 years. I used to carry a unit that was about 9”x4”x3”, it weighed probably 4 pounds, and was attached to a backpack antenna. Now a good mapping grade GPS weighs a pound and isn’t much bigger than a smart phone.

I learned the old way in school and had to do what I described as part of an exam. Nobody does it this way anymore that I know off, but you can still find the equipment.

Many forestry offices still have some old Jacob staves sitting around. In fact I have a cabinet of old equipment that none of my young employees even know what they are anymore. If it ain’t digital they’ve never even heard of it. Makes me feel really old. I still use stereo pair air photos and a pocket stereoscopes to delineate timber sale units. They all want to use crap on their phones. It’s no wonder they can’t navigate on the ground without their toys.

So I can get away with having this in my office oddly enough, just because of my profession and my reputation of being an old school forester.

Why not use a Jacobs staff for defense ? It is likely too long as a cane but fine as a hiking staff. You could mount a suitable fitting on top (tripod thread ?). Sure if you hit someone with it the fitting could break off but it would still be perfectly usable as a staff / bo.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Why not use a Jacobs staff for defense ? It is likely too long as a cane but fine as a hiking staff. You could mount a suitable fitting on top (tripod thread ?). Sure if you hit someone with it the fitting could break off but it would still be perfectly usable as a staff / bo.

Well that’s exactly the intent when I’m out in the woods. That’s why I bought one for personal use. However there are times carrying what is effectively a short spear is not appropriate or practical. I don’t just walk in the woods, I walk many places and where I encounter far too many people. A blackthorn will fit in better in those instances.

I also happen to be of Irish ancestry and celebrate that fact. My last name is Irish and I’ve visited that country. I attend the largest festival in the world celebrating Irish and Celtic heritage every year I can. There’s knotwork art on my walls And I listen to the music. In fact that’s the only music you’ll ever catch me dancing to. So having a Shillelagh or blackthorn walking stick, or whatever someone wants to call it is just plain fun for me.

It’s a layered approach to fit different settings.

 

[SharpDog]

Well that’s exactly the intent when I’m out in the woods. That’s why I bought one for personal use. However there are times carrying what is effectively a short spear is not appropriate or practical. I don’t just walk in the woods, I walk many places and where I encounter far too many people. A blackthorn will fit in better in those instances.

I also happen to be of Irish ancestry and celebrate that fact. My last name is Irish and I’ve visited that country. I attend the largest festival in the world celebrating Irish and Celtic heritage every year I can. There’s knotwork art on my walls And I listen to the music. In fact that’s the only music you’ll ever catch me dancing to. So having a Shillelagh or blackthorn walking stick, or whatever someone wants to call it is just plain fun for me.

It’s a layered approach to fit different settings.

but ... your last name is 'Shooter' ?

 

[kemikos]

A Jacob staff can be fitted with a brass fitting to attach various types of survey or forestry equipment. That’s why the top end is tapered, so it can be trimmed to size.

I gotcha. I was thinking of an old navigation/surveying instrument that was also called a "Jacob's Staff", AKA "Cross-staff"; it was a precursor to the sextant.


Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make much sense for one of those to have a metal spike; I probably should have noticed that.

Just to keep fully on topic, I ordered a blackthorn shillelagh and staff from the links you posted, entirely because of this post, so... thanks for that, I guess?

 

[22-rimfire]

A Jacob staff can be fitted with a brass fitting to attach various types of survey or forestry equipment. That’s why the top end is tapered, so it can be trimmed to size.

In the past, 30+ years ago, a forester would start from an established point, and then traverse the boundary of a stand of timber, recording precise directions and distance between points. The Jacob staff gets planted in the ground with the steel point to provide stability. Then a staff compass is attached, oriented, and used to establish directions. Afterward you take those compass bearings and distance numbers and use an established scale like say 1:15840, which equates out to 4” to the mile. You can then map and draw out the timber sale unit and determine its area.

View attachment 869412

This method became completely obsolete with the advent of GPS. And that technology has bounded forward in the last 15 years. I used to carry a unit that was about 9”x4”x3”, it weighed probably 4 pounds, and was attached to a backpack antenna. Now a good mapping grade GPS weighs a pound and isn’t much bigger than a smart phone.

I learned the old way in school and had to do what I described as part of an exam. Nobody does it this way anymore that I know off, but you can still find the equipment.

Many forestry offices still have some old Jacob staves sitting around. In fact I have a cabinet of old equipment that none of my young employees even know what they are anymore. If it ain’t digital they’ve never even heard of it. Makes me feel really old. I still use stereo pair air photos and a pocket stereoscopes to delineate timber sale units. They all want to use crap on their phones. It’s no wonder they can’t navigate on the ground without their toys.

So I can get away with having this in my office oddly enough, just because of my profession and my reputation of being an old school forester.

I can see you get a fair amount of woods time considering your profession. Your Jacob's Staff is pretty old school, but certainly cool. I have an alidade that nobody uses any more since everything is digital these days. It's basically just a level of sorts. I was debating trying to find a plane table, but I don't use the thing anyway, so it mostly makes a nice shelf display item these days.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I gotcha. I was thinking of an old navigation/surveying instrument that was also called a "Jacob's Staff", AKA "Cross-staff"; it was a precursor to the sextant.
View attachment 869457

Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make much sense for one of those to have a metal spike; I probably should have noticed that.

Just to keep fully on topic, I ordered a blackthorn shillelagh and staff from the links you posted, entirely because of this post, so... thanks for that, I guess?

Hey that’s cool! Hope you like them as much as I do. I went for a 4 mile walk on Friday and took mine along. It did it’s job.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I just remembered I had something I wanted to run past you gents.

When I was a child this cane was leaned up against the fireplace for as long as I could remember. I don’t know where it came from at all. My recent interest in shillelaghs started me wondering. I texted my dad and he said he still had it but has no idea of its origin.

It’s only about 30” long according to him, and I do remember it being fairly short. Not sure what to make of it.

Root collar knob seems apparent but the knobby nature of the shaft doesn’t look like even a blackthorn stick to me. It's also possible it was just cut from a larger stem and sanded to produce the knob. It may not be a root collar at all. It’s also very thin and spindly. It doesn't have the black finish of a blackthorn walking stick either, but I guess someone might have just polished it up and sealed in. I thought maybe hawthorn, but if it was home made by my grandfather perhaps, there's no telling.

I thought maybe it was a walking stick made from another unknown species just in a shillelagh style, and based on the length and light nature, perhaps for a short woman?

I’d appreciate any and all opinions. Everyone who might have known where it came from is dead. I'm going to look it over more closely when I next visit.
View attachment 868717 View attachment 868718

I wanted to do a quick follow up on this old stick. I contacted my sister to see if she remembered the story, and she struggled as well. She jarred a memory though.

My grandfather was a maintenance worker/mechanic at a minimum security prison. My sister seems to remember him finding it there after many years of service. Having an interest in wood working, he brought it home because no one cared about it.

This is conjecture. My home town had a lot of folks who were first and second generation immigrants. It's possible someone brought it over from Europe or it's possible someone who worked there made it in their spare time for any number of uses in the shillelagh style. Like I said, it's only about 30" long, and quite thin on the end. It's pretty short for a cane and heck, maybe it served no real purpose at all. I wonder if whomever worked there prior to my grandfather was charged with tearing out an eastern white cedar bush for some reason, and just decided it'd make a nice stick for whatever purpose (assuming it's cedar). I'll never really know. The only other two folks I could ask are my mom's cousins, and it's really unlikely they'll have any idea.

The mystery will remain a mystery.

 

[bikerdoc]

460
You inspired me to get off my duff and get into the shop and make 2 walking sticks
Not black thorns, one is sassafras, (46" ) the other oak (44" ). Left the bark on and polyed them.
Thank you
Pics to come.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

460
You inspired me to get off my duff and get into the shop and make 2 walking sticks
Not black thorns, one is sassafras, (46" ) the other oak (44" ). Left the bark on and polyed them.
Thank you
Pics to come.

Awesome! Looking forward to the pics.

 

[hso]

Doc, got any lignum vitae or ironwood?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Doc, got any lignum vitae or ironwood?

Ironwood would interest me also. It does grow here in sizes large enough to make a nice staff. I’m talking American hophornbeam. I assume we are talking the same species?

Don’t know that it’s a species I can get a permit to harvest though.

 

[22-rimfire]

Ironwood would interest me also. It does grow here in sizes large enough to make a nice staff. I’m talking American hophornbeam. I assume we are talking the same species?

Don’t know that it’s a species I can get a permit to harvest though.

American Hornbeam is tough stuff! That is the correct name for Ironwood in the US as you know. I doubt you need a permit to "harvest" a few straight pieces of ironwood. Crepe Myrtle is also very tough stuff. I used to go to the craft shows (folk type) and have picked up a few things over the years. I still really like my Sassafras candle holder. Knowing the typical size Sassafras trees grow, this candle holder piece was taken from a fairly large diameter trunk.

On canes, I know technically the lengths you're supposed to use, but I am uncertain about cutting one shorter.