Bloomberg takes aim at Maine

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Some internal opposition in the papers.

http://red207.bangordailynews.com/2016/09/19/gun-control-isnt-about-making-maine-a-safer-place/

http://www.themainewire.com/2016/09...able-firearm-registration-scheme-study-shows/


Simply, UBCs have been demonstrated to not impact violent crime and cost the taxpayers through paying for increased time for regulating and monitoring and enforcement. It is predicated on the false premise that criminals obey the law in any statistically meaningful way and will somehow do so if this legislation is in place. It ignores the root causes of crime and violence thereby diverting resources better applied to addressing those and in doing so risks making things worse.


External arguments from other UBC states

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...-1-style-law-wastes-law-enforcement-resources
 
I will say one thing, since this fight against Bloomberg, he has given us something we've never had before. A vast infrastructure of gun owners that had previously never met before, now acting together on a united front. Resources are being formed that never existed before this fight. We have people dedicated to printing, people constantly driving materials up and down the State, people that are watching daily for public events that would be beneficial for us to have a booth at, and more.
 
Another point against Q3 is that it's being presented by a new york "bigwig", and we Mainers are not too fond of new york in the first place, it's right down there with massachusetts

So, any opportunity to shoot down some unwanted/unneeded misplaced new york nannyisms will be excercised, I've educated all my family members and co workers to vote no, and why that no vote is important.

Bloomie needs to stay in new york.
 
Good for you MacTech, keep up the good work, keep talking to people, educating them. Bloomberg is about to drop a couple million more on ad campaigns and that's all Mainers will see for the next 5 weeks is Yes on 3, we gotta convince them to vote No. IF we are able to defeat it, it will be close and only if a lot more Mainers start getting involved and spreading the word.
 
So after reading and rereading the citizens initiative several times I do not see where if your firearm is stolen the act is specifically exempted from being an illegal transfer and consequently you will be charged for this as a crime along with the person that steals it if they happen to catch them (if you report it).

I see a carefully crafted citizens initiative that will leave a LOT of gray areas that will allow an overzealous DA or police force to make the average gun owner into a criminal over a trivial slip that was formally a legal action. Just my take.
 
Interesting. Because it definitely does define a transfer as
“Transfer” under this initiative means “to sell, furnish, give, lend, deliver or otherwise provide with or without consideration.
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.
 
Anyone bring up the mess Bloomberg caused between VA and TN and several other states by getting the VA AG to revoke carry permit reciprocity if the permit did not match Bloomberg's standard?

VA Gov McAuliffe overrode the AG's action and Bloomberg acted like, because he paid millions to get Democrats elected in VA, they owed him whatever he demanded on gun control.
 
Interesting. Because it definitely does define a transfer as
“Transfer” under this initiative means “to sell, furnish, give, lend, deliver or otherwise provide with or without consideration.
Click to expand...
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Maybe a lawyer could chime in on what I'm about to say as it applies to this UBS issue.


"Consideration" in the contract law sense, means "compensation" and I suspect that's how its being used here, too.

If the gun is stolen, then it doesn't fall into "to sell, furnish, give, lend, deliver or otherwise provide" and therefore the owner that it was stolen from should not have any liability for failing to comply with UBC.


For reference of the "consideration" comment:

Elements of a Contract: The requisite elements that must be established to demonstrate the formation of a legally binding contract are (1) offer; (2) acceptance; (3) consideration; (4) mutuality of obligation; (5) competency and capacity; and, in certain circumstances, (6) a written instrument.

Technically, "consideration" or "compensation" is a requirement for a legal contract. The "consideration" could be $1, or a bushel of corn, or a service (I'll give you this horse for you digging me a water well) Loosely defined as something of value.
 
Thanks danez.

We're putting up a heck of a fight in Maine, a lot of law enforcement and our Governor has come out in opposition of this bill. But things are getting dirty, the supporters of this Bill apparently don't like the First Amendment either because they are stealing and smashing our signs whenever they can get away with it. They know we can't afford to replace them since we don't have any billionaire backers. Aside from a helping hand from the NRA-ILA, most of our money has come from the pocket of individuals like me. We've been digging deep but it will be very close indeed. Bloomberg has ads, tv commercials, mailers, callers and a blank check for it all.

The night of the election results we'll be drinking either way, in celebration or defeat lol.
 
Hopefully we can keep GoMe together win or lose. I don't believe this will be our last fight. God help us all if Hillary wins. We will be in for years of battle.
 
As of this post I have educated more than 12 individuals in my circle of friends, 8 of them firearms owners BTW, that they should vote NO on 3 and to go forth and educate as many others that they can. If we can get the word out this has a good chance of being defeated. The other aspect is to get the like minded to actually go out and vote. I will be offering my services to transport voters to the polls from 3PM to polls close.
 
HRC said that "Peewee" Bloomberg may become her Secretary Of State. I can just see him demanding the Russians give up their Vodka. :rolleyes:
 
meesterdon said:
Hopefully we can keep GoMe together win or lose. I don't believe this will be our last fight. God help us all if Hillary wins. We will be in for years of battle.
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GOME (Gun Owners of Maine) has been around well before this UBC fight, and it has grown considerably since, we aren't going anywhere. GOME was instrumental in supporting the Constitutional Carry bill that we now enjoy. It launched a free online firearms safety course that helped nudge some of the fence sitter politicians in the right direction.

I'll be going up to Howell's gun shop for their grand reopening this Saturday to man the GOME table and hand out/share information on Question 3. Anyone in the area it would be great to see you stop by and meet a fellow High Roader.
 
A week ago Sunday my GF and I went from SW Harbor to Ellsworth. For something diffrent to do along the way we counted the NO on 3 and DEM signs along our route. A total of 231 were counted. I made the trip again today and there were just 14 signs left standing. There were still just as many Clinton signs as the first time it appeared. I stopped at a LGS along the way and his take was that the opposition was acting like a bunch of spoiled first graders that were not getting their way. I now have an IR game camera on the signs on my front lawn. I have suggested this option to a bunch of others that were complaining of theft. It is a felony to tamper with political signs that are legally placed. Somebody stole two of mine and another time ran over them all. So much for the non violent/coexist mantra we always here from that crowd.

On a different note I think that this has helped strengthen and improve our local pro 2A support at this time.
 
JSH1 said:
Successfully countering universal background checks will require coming up with a logical argument explaining why buying a gun from a dealer requires a background check but buying one from an individual should not. Background checks = registration = confiscation will not will not and has not worked.

In the end I see UBCs passing for the simple reason that they are supported by an overwhelming majority of people.
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I have to agree that UBCs are probably the future with any type of firearm simply based on the strong public support. I think there is a lot of belief that these systems prevent violent crime, there is a huge lobbying initiative that spends millions promoting the "benefits", and even if we show evidence to the counter it won't necessarily sway an opinion of, "well if it sounds good, then it must be good." In theory, they sound great, don't infringe upon rights, are unobtrusive, preserve the future of the 2A, and stop violent crime. But socialism also sounds great in theory, and history books can attest to how well that theory played out!

What really puzzles me is how so many people that are greatly concerned about privacy are 100% on-board for things like UBCs and No Fly List integration. They recognize the risks of government having too much data, and understand the Constitution exists to limit government access to such data, but don't seem to realize how it applies to the 2A as much as any other topic pertaining to constitutional and civil rights.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the current NICS based on voluntary reporting?
 
I hate to seem alarmist, but I think you Maine people need to understand what you are up against.
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+1

Before WA and OR, he targeted us here in CO. We killed 5 of the 7 pieces of legislation, but they still rammed UBC and a mag restriction down our throat. It cost 3 congress critters their seats in recalls and the Democrats lost the senate over it, but bloomy doesn't care.

Granted, that wasn't put to popular vote. In point of fact, the bills were passed illegally. But that didn't stop our <not high road> governor from signing them.

Fight them with everything you have. At least with it going to popular vote, you won't get railroaded by an owned legislature and governor like we did here, despite greater than 60:1 opposition at the public hearings.
 
We knew exactly what we were up against and we fought tooth and nail to shut it down. We now have a pretty good infrastructure and understanding of what works and what doesn't if/when the next wave comes. Hopefully we can keep up momentum and start to turn the tide in our favor though.

Doesn't sound like Nevada is doing as good, I hope they pull through.
 
Today is a great day to be a Mainer. We showed the country that a true grass roots effort by the people could defeat out of state millions. Thank you Maine.
 
It was too close for comfort !. Too many gun owners didn't vote.
Next time (and you bet with such a close result) you may not fare so well. GUN OWNERS stand up for your rights !!!!
 
islanddave said:
It was too close for comfort !. Too many gun owners didn't vote.
Next time (and you bet with such a close result) you may not fare so well. GUN OWNERS stand up for your rights !!!!
Click to expand...

We now have an organization in Maine prepared to fight. GoMe has proved to be very effective. Plus I have a feeling that Trump is going to strengthen 2A nationwide. I'm pretty sure some liberal heads will explode in the coming months. :) They now are going to have a national fight.

I see a strong 2A Supreme Court in the future. Perhaps some of the silly laws on the books will get declared unconstitutional?

Trump may do more for the 2A than anyone since the founding fathers.

Damn I'm a happy guy right now.
 
Since this election cycle is over we'll close this and let a new one open when it's time to rally again.

Good luck to Mainers in organizing for the next round.
 
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