Both eyes open - sight focus

[Blackstone]

The general accepted mantra seems to be, focus on the front sight. When shooting with both eyes open, this means you see doubles of the rear sight and the target. Do you just train yourself to ignore the "ghost" images? I find that I look through the sights at the target, and it's a lot easier to ignore doubles of sights. It seems I can only do this because my depth of field is good enough that I can still see the front sight clearly as well. What are your thoughts on this? I do a mixture of practical and precision shooting.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

The system is overrated. If you can do it great (I can't and have the same problem as I'm cross dominate. 30 years ago no one talked about that concept or worried about keeping both eyes open). If you can't there is nothing wrong with momentiarly closing one eye. Likely your vision will shrink down to 6 degrees (vs. the 60 degrees we normally see when doing activities such as driving). As such, you really aren't giving up much. I'm a nobody. Loui Awerbuck in SWAT magazine has written a fair bit about this in the last two years.

 

[Shadow 7D]

it doesn't matter, the entire method depends on dominate eye, simply put, one eye is stronger and the mind AUTOMATICALLY ignores ghost. Takes some getting used to and is fully doable if you want to take the time to learn the system.

Now, if you are one who is left eye dominate and shoot right handed, sighting with the right eye, this is NOT the system for you, I mean you can still do it, but you either have to learn to shoot left handed or to use the right eye.

 

[Nushif]

Now, if you are one who is left eye dominate and shoot right handed, sighting with the right eye, this is NOT the system for you, [...]

So freakin' true. I am tired of people telling me to keep both eyes open because *they* can do it.
I swear I have tried, really really hard, but it is NOT working. >.<

 

[9mmepiphany]

I've been shooting handguns with both eyes open for at least 30 years...I did start out by sighting with one eye closed as I learned to shoot with a rifle.

It is simply a matter of ignoring the image from the non-dominate eye.

The general accepted mantra seems to be, focus on the front sight. When shooting with both eyes open, this means you see doubles of the rear sight and the target.

You are not supposed to focus both eyes on the front sight. Both eyes should look straight ahead. The dominate eye should be looking through the rear sight notch and focusing on the front blade.

I just picked up my pistols to check what I see when I am aiming:
1. When I close my dominate eye, I get a side view of the front sight
2. When I close my non-dominate eye, I lose some peripheral vision to that side. I think it is more focus on the target, there is nothing that says you shouldn't focus the non-dominate eye on the target.

This ability is much more important is practical shooting as it concerns awareness, but it is also important in precision shooting as closing one eye affects visual acuity of the open eye as well as adding strain

 

[Blackstone]

You are not supposed to focus both eyes on the front sight. Both eyes should look straight ahead. The dominate eye should be looking through the rear sight notch and focusing on the front blade.

Is this easy to do or is it something that would require a lot of training? It sounds like the two eyes should be focusing on different things...

 

[k_dawg]

I have contemplated in developing an asymetric front sight where the non-dominate eye does not see the 'dot'.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Is this easy to do or is it something that would require a lot of training? It sounds like the two eyes should be focusing on different things...

It does take some practice, but it is no harder than bi-focal contacts...the brain sorta out the images and sees what it needs.

The easiest way to start is to just stop looking out the non-dominate eye...allow it to see, just don't look through it. This is often taught by placing a translucent film on the lens of the safety glasses over the non-dominate eye...it tells the brain that what that eye sees isn't a priority in this situation.

As your skill level rises, you'll find that you'll be seeing your sights without looking at them at all

 

[gp911]

When you're cross dominant you battle with your dominant eye or you turn your head (chin toward shoulder of shooting hand) so the sights line up properly with your dominant eye. I can shoot with both eyes open but I have to take a second to wink my dominant left eye so my brain resets to the right eye. I've tried the head-turn method but it doesn't work well for me. If I haven't shot for awhile it takes longer to adjust. Cross-dominance is aggravating to deal with.

 

[bogon48]

I'm a lefty who has always shot rifle right handed and pistol left handed. Both eyes were about the same when I was 20. Forty-some years later, without glasses, the right eye is O.K. for distance, and the left is near sighted and perfectly sees the front sight at pistol distance. While I have prescription shooting glasses for pistol, I'm learning to shoot left handed, left eye, both eyes open, no prescription.

Anyway, like GP911, I sometimes have to briefly shut an eye or blink to reset my vision properly. I've also found that if I take an old-fashioned bullseye stance, and shoot one-handed, the mental switch is even easier. Dry firing helps a good bit.

But heck, figure out what works for you. Closing an eye to shoot isn't going be anyone's business but yours, especially if you can throw more rounds in the black or in center mass.

 

[Jaxondog]

I was told when I was 13 yr's. old when I worked at the Durham Wildlife Club loading skeet and trapp house's to keep both eye's open that I would be able to "get on the bird" faster. 47 yr's later and I'm still doing it. Mostly when shooting quickly at moving target's, otherwise it's right eye dominance. I'm just used to it that I really don't think about it.

 

[Blackstone]

I'm not cross-dominant, it just seems like my brain wants to interpret both images equally as strongly. I guess that means I'm not strongly dominant in either eye.

The easiest way to start is to just stop looking out the non-dominate eye...allow it to see, just don't look through it. This is often taught by placing a translucent film on the lens of the safety glasses over the non-dominate eye...it tells the brain that what that eye sees isn't a priority in this situation.

Would you recommend just walking around the house like that as well for periods of time just to further train your brain?

 

[guyfromohio]

Can you get precision with both open. One eye, I can get impressive groups at 30' or so. Both open, I can get on target fast, but those groups open up to 3-5 inches.

 

[Pete D.]

There has been extensive research concerning the effect of shooting with both eyes open as opposed to one eye shut. Probably the best treatment of this that is readily available is A.A. Yur'Yev's classic book "Competitve Shooting" translated from the Russian by the great American marksman, Gary Anderson, and available from the NRA.
Simply....our eyes work sympathetically....what one eye does affects the other. So...closing one eye dimimishes the sight in the other eye. If you shoot well with one eye shut, you will probably shoot even better if you can train yourself to keep both eyes open.
Maybe easier to write that than it is to do.
Pete

 

[RTR_RTR]

You can cheat somewhat by turning your head to the side and using your nose as a vision block for the nondominant eye. Depending on the size of your schnoz I suppose

 

[Blackstone]

I better start telling more lies then

 

[BCRider]

I don't have a strongly dominant eye issue so I can see two equally clear images of the gun. But I've got some astigmatism in the right eye so the left eye lets me see and shoot more clearly. So despite being right handed I use the "right hand" image of the gun generated by my left eye to aim with my handguns since it has the sharper looking front sight. This has worked out just fine for my handgun shooting both for speed related matches as well as formal one handed bullseye. I just need to turn my head on my neck a little more than the right eye aimers to get a good bullseye sight picture with my left eye.

It doesn't take long at all to come to terms with this. On the other hand folks with strongly dominant eyes should just use the image that comes first to their vision and develop their skills using the image that they can see. After all in a speed related match or in an actual defensive scenario you want to be able to instinctively raise and aim in a manner suitable for the situation. There isn't time to consider closing one eye to force the other to light up a useable image.

 

[mdauben]

The general accepted mantra seems to be, focus on the front sight. When shooting with both eyes open, this means you see doubles of the rear sight and the target. Do you just train yourself to ignore the "ghost" images?

Personally, I turn my head slightly so the sights are only visible in my dominant eye. That way I can keep both eyes open for situational awarensss, without the "double vision" on the sights.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Now, if you are one who is left eye dominate and shoot right handed, sighting with the right eye, this is NOT the system for you, I mean you can still do it, but you either have to learn to shoot left handed or to use the right eye.

I have this problem. I've been working consistantly to shoot with my right eye. It isn't easy when your brain tells you to aim with the other eye. Muscle memory helps bring it up to the right. It's taken months of practice to get this down.

Fortunately, I live alone, so I can wave unloaded guns around all I want. Sometimes I practice this while I have my earpiece in and am talking on the phone. I often wonder what my neighbors would say if they saw me seemingly talking to no one, and aiming a gun.

"Henry......... call the police!"

 

[BP Hunter]

You know what..I don't even know if I open both eyes or shoot with the dominant eye. What I know is that I am hitting my targets really well. It all boils down to practice and practice.

 

[PBR Streetgang]

I'm a retired LE firearms instructor who taught at the academy level. Had all the problem shooters and always found a way to get them good enough to qualify.
Me,,,,I can shoot left or righ handed equally well but shot one eye at a time.

As I got older my eyesight wained. Sighs got a bit blurry. I started shooting rifle with a Aimpoint and after some practice I can now shoot both eyes open. The suprising thing is I can now shoot handguns both eyes open with little problem...not saying it will work for you but it worked for me.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The general accepted mantra seems to be, focus on the front sight. When shooting with both eyes open, this means you see doubles of the rear sight and the target. Do you just train yourself to ignore the "ghost" images? I find that I look through the sights at the target, and it's a lot easier to ignore doubles of sights. It seems I can only do this because my depth of field is good enough that I can still see the front sight clearly as well. What are your thoughts on this? I do a mixture of practical and precision shooting.

Blackstone,

The trick to using sights (or not) is index. Prefect your draw so you always come up with a good index on the target no matter what 'stance' or hold you use. Do that and the sights WILL be aligned.

The old 'flash sight picture' of the Modern Technique (MT) was based on a good index so you didn't have to adjust the sights, just verify the aliment. The more you practiced verification the better the index became and the better the index got the more precise the aliment became!

Even today with the isosceles technique index is mandatory. And when point shooting the index is mandatory. Heck even HIP shooting a form of index is needed.

Sighed fire can be very effective, but it's the index that allows you to quickly see the sights without having to look for them or adjust them.

Deaf

 

[BCRider]

Blackstone, I take it that you have not handled a handgun all that much at this point. Or at least not done so with both eyes open at this point.

Yes there is a double image, provided the shooter does not have a strongly dominant eye situation. But it's a case of two guns, two sets of hands and one target. It seems odd to say that but it isn't that hard to train yourself to see the one target and two guns and still focus your vision on the front sight of one of the gun images while the focus angle of your eyes is still on the target so that there is only one target.

When held at arm's length the gun is simply much too far away for there to be a single front sight and double rear sight image. Only if you focus ONLY on the front blade is there a double image of the rear sight and a double image of the target. I can force my vision to focus that way but it's a mess and simply not the way that I use when I'm shooting.

 

[Blackstone]

Blackstone, I take it that you have not handled a handgun all that much at this point. Or at least not done so with both eyes open at this point.

Yes there is a double image, provided the shooter does not have a strongly dominant eye situation. But it's a case of two guns, two sets of hands and one target. It seems odd to say that but it isn't that hard to train yourself to see the one target and two guns and still focus your vision on the front sight of one of the gun images while the focus angle of your eyes is still on the target so that there is only one target.

When held at arm's length the gun is simply much too far away for there to be a single front sight and double rear sight image. Only if you focus ONLY on the front blade is there a double image of the rear sight and a double image of the target. I can force my vision to focus that way but it's a mess and simply not the way that I use when I'm shooting.

That sounds like what I'm doing now, I seem to have both the target and front sight in clear view. I thought this was down to good depth of field

 

[BCRider]

Then it sounds like you're "there" already. I'll wait for some others to either confirm this or tell me/us that this is all wrong. But it's what I'm doing and it's working pretty well both for my slow bullseye stuff and the speed focused "run n' gun" stuff I also do.