TheGreatCoward
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Bought Spanish S&W Clone, Unsure of Caliber. Need Help with identification.
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DocRock
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38 Largo is 38 Long Colt, using an inside lubricated .357 bullet unlike it's predecessor the 38 Short Colt which used an outside lubricated .375 heeled bullet. 38 S&W uses a nominal .361 bullet I believe.
38 Special is longer than the 38 Long Colt and operates at higher pressures than 38 Long Colt which began life as a black powder cartridge. There will be folks along shortly telling you that 357 Magnum smokeless loads are fine in your revolver. I suggest you only use 38 LC ammunition and, given the age and provenance of the revolver, I would want it checked by a qualified gunsmith with knowledge of such pistols. But I apparently have an unnatural interest in my own health.
38 Special is longer than the 38 Long Colt and operates at higher pressures than 38 Long Colt which began life as a black powder cartridge. There will be folks along shortly telling you that 357 Magnum smokeless loads are fine in your revolver. I suggest you only use 38 LC ammunition and, given the age and provenance of the revolver, I would want it checked by a qualified gunsmith with knowledge of such pistols. But I apparently have an unnatural interest in my own health.
Monac
Member
Well, first thing, TheGreatCoward, it is correct that 38 S&W rounds do not fit. 38 Long Colt is the same diameter as 38 Special, which is .357 inch (which is why 357 magnum is 357). 38 S&W is supposed to be .359, IIRC. The question is why the 38 round you are using won't go in any farther than it does. Sorry, but I don't know. What is it, exactly?
Otherwise, all I can suggest is to examine the chambers carefully, and try to see if there is a chamber step preventing this, or if there is corrosion or heavy fouling. You could try scrubbing the chambers with a powder solvent and a copper brush, just in case. As far as I know, in a revolver, 38 Largo was just the Spanish name for 38 Long Colt. I would be surprised if it meant some other 38 centerfire cartridge, and flabbergasted if it meant 9mm Largo, which was a powerful Spanish automatic pistol cartridge.
There are light 38 Long Colt loads made for "cowboy action shooting". If 38 Special fits, I would not fire anything more than what are called "38 Special mid-range wadcutter loads". Those are light target loads. They have gotten kind of hard to find, though.
BTW, I have had some interest these old Spanish pistols. It is my opinion that the ones made without sideplates, like yours, are of lower quality than the ones made with sideplates, like actual S&Ws. No offense, it is still old and interesting, but it would make me less surprised if the chambers were simply not made to the right dimensions. Although then I would wonder how it got through proofing. Does it have
proof marks?
PS - a recent post in another thread showed there are boxes of 9mm Largo ammunition made in Spain marked "38 Largo". There is still no way your revolver should be made for 9mm Largo. For one thing, that cartridge is rimless and requires either half-moon clips or some kind of special extractor/ejector to use in a revolver.
Otherwise, all I can suggest is to examine the chambers carefully, and try to see if there is a chamber step preventing this, or if there is corrosion or heavy fouling. You could try scrubbing the chambers with a powder solvent and a copper brush, just in case. As far as I know, in a revolver, 38 Largo was just the Spanish name for 38 Long Colt. I would be surprised if it meant some other 38 centerfire cartridge, and flabbergasted if it meant 9mm Largo, which was a powerful Spanish automatic pistol cartridge.
There are light 38 Long Colt loads made for "cowboy action shooting". If 38 Special fits, I would not fire anything more than what are called "38 Special mid-range wadcutter loads". Those are light target loads. They have gotten kind of hard to find, though.
BTW, I have had some interest these old Spanish pistols. It is my opinion that the ones made without sideplates, like yours, are of lower quality than the ones made with sideplates, like actual S&Ws. No offense, it is still old and interesting, but it would make me less surprised if the chambers were simply not made to the right dimensions. Although then I would wonder how it got through proofing. Does it have
proof marks?
PS - a recent post in another thread showed there are boxes of 9mm Largo ammunition made in Spain marked "38 Largo". There is still no way your revolver should be made for 9mm Largo. For one thing, that cartridge is rimless and requires either half-moon clips or some kind of special extractor/ejector to use in a revolver.
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silvermane_1
Member
Actually all of Spanish 357 mag wheelguns I know of were marked as such, heck I heard of ones marked 38 Esp.(Special).
DocRock
member
Sorry. I was being facetious. The 38 Long Colt is not interchangeable with 38 Special, 357 Mag, or 38 S&W. 38 LC has a case length of 1.031" vs 38 Special at 1.155 and 1.29 for 357 Mag. 38 S&W has a wider diameter body and bullet than LC, 38 Special, and 357 Mag. 9mm Largo, as mentioned above is an altogether different round, rimless, .910" case length, and . 355" bullet diameter .
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indy1919a4
Member
That box of 38 largo is 38 largo.. no where near 9mm largo.. they are 2 different rounds.. 38 largo is very weak and very obscure and may be black powder.
DocRock
member
38 Largo is just Spanish for 38 Long. As you correctly note, it is not the same as 9mm Largo.
Monac
Member
Wow, I did NOT read you post correctly in that thread, indy1919a4. I glanced at the picture, and thought what I wanted to think, which is that the Spanish had labelled some 9mm Largo ammunition as 38 Largo, which I thought coincided with some of the markings on their automatic pistols. I have no idea what that stuff actually is, except that it is some old 38 centerfire cartridge that pre-dates 38 S&W. If TheGreatCoward's revolver is made for THAT, I have no idea why it was sold in the US. Boy, some days you learn stuff that turns stuff you believed for years upside down.
silvermane_1
Member
No harm, no foul and I knew what meant there Doc Rock.
ApacheCoTodd
member
I got nothing except I dig the cylinder latch.
Does it lock up, over-all, as tightly as a Dan Wesson?
Todd.
Does it lock up, over-all, as tightly as a Dan Wesson?
Todd.
OP
OP
TheGreatCoward
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It does lock up fairly tight, but I've never handled a dan wesson to say for sure
First off, Welcome to the THR, @TheGreatCoward , Spanish made revolvers run the gamut from the decently made to dangerous. Plus, the age of them also risks someone altering them and not documenting it. Have either a gunsmith or someone knowledgeable about Spanish revolvers take a look at it. Someone may come along in this thread that can identify exactly when and where it was made and by whom along with some additional useful information. Good luck with your new shooting iron.
Might find this useful, https://military.wikia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt
Might find this useful, https://military.wikia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt
I have bad news and good news. The bad news is that 38 Long Colt ammunition is very hard to find. The good news is that since you can't get ammunition, you won't be tempted to shoot the gun. Early Spanish S&W copies varied a lot in quality from acceptable to downright dangerous to fire. Some of them were literally shooting irons - they had frames made of iron, not steel and were prone to spontaneous rapid disassembly. Don't shoot it.
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TheGreatCoward
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I've got a box of 38 lc
MI2600
Member
The .38 Colt Short and Long originally had heeled bullets as noted above. But, about 1902, Colt changed the .38 Long Colt to an inside lubed bullet which was essentially a shortened .38 Spl case and a smaller diameter bullet.
If the chambers have a ridge, then it is the newer cartridge.
If the chambers have a ridge, then it is the newer cartridge.
Monac
Member
How do these cartridges relate to the Spanish made cartridges shown by 1919a4 in this post #8 of this thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-french-spanish-model-92.864567/#post-11413371
Are they 38 Long Colt made in Spain, or are they something else entirely?
MI2600
Member
I can't comment on the Spanish cartridges.My knowledge of the .38 Colt is limited to what I learned from my Colt New Army revolvers.
Sovblocgunfan
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Do yourself a favor and get a gunsmith to measure the chambers at a minimum.
there is no telling what has happened to this revolver over time and any number of modifications could have been performed to the chambers to accept some different cartridge.
some of those Spanish copies are very very close to their S&W equivalents and some are dangerous. Yours looks pretty nice but if the cartridge inscribed on the barrel doesn’t fit in the cylinder, then...
there is no telling what has happened to this revolver over time and any number of modifications could have been performed to the chambers to accept some different cartridge.
some of those Spanish copies are very very close to their S&W equivalents and some are dangerous. Yours looks pretty nice but if the cartridge inscribed on the barrel doesn’t fit in the cylinder, then...
FlSwampRat
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Now that's an elegantly understated way of saying it.
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