GaryinVirginia
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I have no idea what I need. Can you all help me understand?
Brass, Aluminum and Steel ammo
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lysanderxiii
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Oh, boy here we go again....
GaryinVirginia
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Does it even matter?
You'll get lots of opinions on this one, though the thread shouldn't be as long as if you'd asked about Glocks vs. 1911's or revolvers. Basically, in general, brass case ammo will be easiest on the gun and have fewer malfunctions. There are exceptions.
Charlie98
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Yes, it does.... it depends on if you want to reload.
For most people, probably not. Most don't shoot enough to show any difference, and a few malfunctions during practice aren't a bad thing. Helps you develop your malfunction clearance response time.
What Charlie is talking about here is that you can only reload brass, not aluminum or steel case.
Jim Watson
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Brass cases are the long time standard and will be found in all good quality defense, competition, and hunting ammunition.
They are generally reloadable.
Steel cases are cheap Iron Curtain, aluminum cases are cheap US. Not readily reloadable although it has been done as kind of a stunt.
They are generally reloadable.
Steel cases are cheap Iron Curtain, aluminum cases are cheap US. Not readily reloadable although it has been done as kind of a stunt.
TomJ
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For what, range ammo? Most indoor ranges here don't allow steel case ammo, but the gun club I belong to does, so you should confirm what's allowed where you shoot assuming it's for range use.
Zaydok Allen
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As others have said, brass cases are reloadable. If you think you will ever get into reloading, I recommend buying brass cased ammo, and save it in a dry place. I did that for the first ten years I shot, and then got into reloading. I only need to buy brass if I am getting into a new to me cartridge. If all you are shooting is 9mm, and have no intent to ever reload, buy whatever ammo you like in bulk online if possible.
GaryinVirginia
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Ok. Thanks. I also heard steel may wear a gun out slightly more, but probably no worry for me.
It makes sense that it would, since steel is harder. Thing is, very few people will ever wear out a pistol, regardless of what type of ammo they use. The people who do wear out pistol barrels though pretty much universally use brass only, which means that there aren't going to be a lot of direct comparisons of how long a barrel will last using the two types of cases. It's common for a 9mm Glock barrel, for example, to go well beyond 75,000 rds shooting brass case ammo. I've never heard of a test using steel case, but even if it only lasted half as long, you'd save enough to buy a half a dozen new pistol barrels.
Steel cases won't cause any problems associated with wear if a drop of oil is put on the cases. This will break the friction between case and chamber and promote easy extraction, which will increase the life of any extractor.
Wolf is using a sintered teflon technology on their steel cases. This is one technology that reduces wear on the chamber and extractor for steel case use. Notice that Wolf calls the stuff a polymer and has stopped calling it a lubricant. This is what Wolf used to say:
Superior Reliability: The application of the polymer creates a precision uniform coating around the casing. It produces a bullet with persistent, uncompromising, stable dimensions thus leading to smooth reliable extractions.
Better Functioning: The superior lubricity improvement eases wear in gun chambers and alleviates excessive operational and maintenance issues associated with rapid firing. The development of this polymer represents a break-through in the field of tribology, and incorporates the most recent chemistry in terms of lubricity improving molecules.
This is what they say now:
Polyformance ammunition will not disappoint! Wolf coats all of their ammunition with a polymer coating to ensure smooth feeding and extraction putting the shooters mind at ease with less jamming. The coating on the ammunition allows for the ammunition to have a lengthier long term shortage time in comparison to different manufacturers
Calling a coating a lubricant will cause certain ignorant types to howl about "increased bolt thrust", so Wolf and others no longer mention case lubrication and call this sintered teflon technology a "polymer coating". Incidentally, the howler's don't know that aluminum cases are coated in a wax lubricant, so the case won't adhere to the chamber walls. Maybe the coating technology for aluminum cases has changed since George Frost wrote his book on Ammunition Making. Industry does not have to be using wax as a lubricant if they have found a better case lubricant, but that is what they used to use.
The absolute best, most trouble free material material to make cartridge cases was, and still is, brass. The alternates are primarily used because of cost, and they have function issues.
I don't know if this technology has made its way to pistol ammunition:
so I would be interested in reading anyone's experience with the stuff. The usual problems with these plastic cases has been the front end sticking in the chamber and the metal, gas pressure part of the case pulling off during extraction. That is why the True Value cases have the case head woven inside the cartridge sidewalls. I don't know how Engel's ballistic research cases handle that joint.
cjwils
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"Most indoor ranges here don't allow steel case ammo...."
Some ranges don't allow either steel or aluminum. You should check your local ranges before you buy steel or aluminum ammo.
Some ranges don't allow either steel or aluminum. You should check your local ranges before you buy steel or aluminum ammo.
Jim Watson
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Rental ranges like brass brass because it is easily sold for "remanufacture" or even scrap, and the brass brokers don't want it contaminated with iron or aluminum.
Interesting about the True Velocity plastic ammo. Their stuff is the basis for one of the three Army Automatic Rifle projects, but the military version is of the "neckless" design, which avoids thin plastic at the front of the chamber.
Interesting about the True Velocity plastic ammo. Their stuff is the basis for one of the three Army Automatic Rifle projects, but the military version is of the "neckless" design, which avoids thin plastic at the front of the chamber.
Neo-Luddite
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True. I shot a box of the stuff...(headstamp 1943) that my Dad had in his old footlocker. Every round fired and ejected just fine...very light ammo or degraded a bit. It was a mild steel but no....I otherwise only feed steel cased ammo to my commie-block hardware as you're doing. Aluminum (usually Blazer) has always worked very, very well in my SA 1911. I would especially avoid steel cased 5.56/.223 in a Ruger Mini 14 or Keltec. Maybe I'm just over-cautious.
Are there really people who take the time to put a drop of oil on every steel case? If that's what's needed it's worth the $.015 extra to not mess with it, IMO.
Well Gary , you sure are a minimalist when it comes to verbiage.
My answer : When in doubt , buy brass.
There , all guesswork is eliminated.
Good Ol' Boy
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Nothing wrong with steel or aluminum cased cartridges. I've shot thousands with no issues. Used to be they were quite a bit cheaper than brass several years ago.
However, now that there are several companies making brass just as cheap, that's what I primarily buy.
However, now that there are several companies making brass just as cheap, that's what I primarily buy.
Probably not. I put 223 steel cases in my hand, put a few drops on them and rolled them around. Messy as heck. But it works.
The only guys I know who still regularly oil their rounds is the occasional Bullseye Pistol shooter. When 1911's are sluggish, you will see Bullseye shooters putting a drop of oil on the top round in the five round stack. I have oiled all of the rounds, putting a drop on each round before the next is pressed on top. One thing, which is all to the good, is that oil is squeezed out the back into the action rails. My pistol is "self lubricating", excess oil flushes out powder residue and fresh oil splashes on the locking lugs, the swinging link, and of course, the slide/action rails. I don't know if it makes its way to the barrel hood, but I put a drop of oil on the hood every ten shots anyway. I frequently wipe off the pistol sides to keep the oil accumulation out the sides down to a reasonable level. The slide on a 1911 moves and excessive oil will be shaken off and get on my shooting glasses. It is not as much of a problem with AR's as the bolt is inside the upper.
Jim Watson
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Old saying, a 1911 has just barely enough lube when it quits throwing oil in your face.
I oil the top round in a .22 magazine.
Centerfires just don't get the sizing lube - reduces effort even with carbide dies - removed.
cougar1717
Member
If you're genuinely asking, probably not. Most people's usage will not harm their firearms.
It takes about five to six thousand rounds of steel cased 223 shot rapid fire to chunk a barrel in an AR. Even with that, it's not the case that mattered, it was the bi-metal (steel) jacket.
Broadbrushing here, but steel ammo is typically not as accurate as **most** US-made brass cased ammo. Steel cased ammo uses some of the cheapest, dirtiest propellants and may get laquer or polymer in the chamber if you get the firearm hot enough. If you shoot some brass afterward, it will adhere to the brass case and pull it out though.
Steel vs aluminum vs brass can be a divisive issue. I've purchased and shot them all. For most people's 50 - 250 round plinking/blasting range session, it doesn't make much difference.
Older Bullseye Shooters told me: "Your elbow is the drip point!"
The older Bullseye 1911's had the frame rails peened, and then the slide, with a liberal coating of grinding compound applied to the rails, was beat with a hammer, back and forward, grinding the slide and frame together. At some level of "tightness" the gunsmith stopped beating the slide over the frame and proceeded to barrel fitting, etc. Those guns tended to be more finicky than 1911's made since the semi conductor revolution in manufacturing. The modern guns are tight without the high spots that the older guns had. And the older guns really needed to be heavily lubricated at all times!
Over oiling does not hurt a thing, it is just messy!
GaryinVirginia
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I try to limit myself to less than $15 per session. I shoot 2-3 times a week.
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