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Bring back the Draft: U.S. & R.A's

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Mad Magyar, Apr 12, 2007.

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  1. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    I firmly believe that the elimination of the draft has hurt the moral fiber of this country. I also contend that an all-volunteer force is not the best we’ve ever had, as advertised by the military propagandists. For the vast majority of volunteers, there motives for joining the military are simply economics. This country has suffered ever since.
    When the draft was in force, you had a full-spectrum of society, not w/o some protest, participating in the defense of this country. Being an RA myself, the U.S.soldiers would bitch, and gripe and look down on the RA’s; but damn it; they were good soldiers and did their jobs.
    Yes, there were draft-dodgers and college exemptions, etc; but it still was an effective program in quality & quantity to meet the needs of this country.
    Today’s youth are missing the discipline and dedication to principles that only the military can provide.
    I truly hope that with all the talk of the military “being broken”; that they follow the lead of Rep. Chas. Rangel and reinstate the draft…. We cannot delay….
     
  2. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    So everyone owes the state a couple of years of servitude? Taxes are not enough, obeying the laws is not enough, being a good citizen is not enough. Now everyone, including the vast majority of people in this country who are unqualified for military service must go and fight for something they may not even believe in?

    I wouldn't follow Rangel out of a burning building.
     
  3. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

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    Take it to APS. Its OT here.

    The draft issue has been discussed. I, for one, am against it. The problem is not the lack of a draft, but of parents who will not discipline their kids, and others who let them get away with it.
     
  4. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    The USs would look down on the RAs? You have it backwards, I think. RA was Regular Army and those were the people who enlisted. US was for those who were drafted, and as an RA in Vietnam I was never of the perception that my US brethren were looking down on me.

    I can't speak to officer opinions, as I was a lowly Spec5, but I also didn't see any evidence of enlisted RAs looking down on the USs. We all slept in the same hooch, ate the same chow, and hiked through the same rice paddies. What's to look down on?

    The only group I think was looked down on with any particular regularity (and justification, I might add) was OCS officers. I did meet one decent OCS Lieutenant once ... ONE, out of God only know how many I enountered. Pointers were genrally pretty good, but even ROTC types were generally better than OCS.
     
  5. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    If you're interested in the topic, I suggest you read Dr. Milton Friedman's thoughts on the subject. Dr. Friedman--who won the Nobel Prize for economics--was on the Gates Commission, which (unanimously) recommended the abolition of the draft. His heated discussion with Gen. Westmoreland illustrates with beautiful clarity the difference between volunteers and conscripts.

    Reasona very good article on him, which you can find at http://www.reason.com/news/show/118494.html.
     
  6. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    If I was drafted I sure as hell wouldnt go why should I do anything for this country when they refuse to do anything to help the ones who need it most in this country. Secondly why do you think the rest of the world hates america because we put our nose in everything weather it needs to be there or not were not the world police.
     
  7. Elza

    Elza Member

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    Aguila Blanca: I ran across some VERY negative attitudes from US’s when I was in basic training. (Army ’72-’75) I had a draft number of 341. They resented the hell out of me and the other RA’s because they didn’t want to be there. What that had to do with me escapes me. Once I got into AIT it didn’t matter as my MOS required a four year enlistment so US’s were not part of the equation.
     
  8. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    Exactly the point I was making...It was no big deal; but there was that smugness when things got a little rough: "You sucker for joining..."
    However, that attitude didn't last long during the long haul...

    YES!! Regardless of how you feel about C. Rangel....:)

    What's APS or OT?:confused:
     
  9. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    re:

    Interesting...I notice that the ones who have stated in essence: "Hell no! I won't go!" are happily enjoying the liberties and priveleges afforded them by the ones who DID go.

    As for helping the ones who really need it...Part of the reason for our economy being so compromised is the long list of able-bodied people on the welfare rolls who can do, but prefer to live off the fruits of others' labors while spitting out a raise in pay about every 10 months.

    Nah. This country ain't perfect, and probably never will be. Perfection only exists in the mind of God.

    World police? Well...I can only recall the words of a German statesman, uttered during the Cold War: (Sorry...Can't recall the name. It's one of the drawbacks to aging.)

    "Better the Americans as policemen than the Russians for jailers."

    Cheers...and God bless America.
     
  10. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    The only war I would fight in is with the mexicans we need to do something about them more then iraq there not the ones crossing the border in mass invading this country illegals mexicans are killing this country and done more to me then some camel jockey not only that they come here and demand rights from us and we do nothing all the iraqs want is us to get the heck out there and I cant say i honestly blame them
     
  11. sorensen440

    sorensen440 member

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    Hey john colo I assume you mean the Illegals crossing the Mexican border?
    (They arent all from mexico)
     
  12. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    I have to wonder if those who support reinstating the draft are familiar with Milton Friedman's reasoning on the subject.
     
  13. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    When the people who want to help have no problems sending you to be blown into a wheelchair or a pine box by an IED, you have to wonder about your enemies...
     
  14. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    Where you fired from you job as a chef because you didnt know spanish and could talk with the illegals they had work with you? I have and I asked for help from the state I got told theres nothing we can do because whites dont have the same protection rights as every other race.So tell me why I should give mylife for this country they clearly showen me they care more about illegals then anyone else.
     
  15. The Amigo

    The Amigo Member

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    I used to think this way but as years passed I can only see people who are forced to join the military nothing but trouble. For 20 years of active duty I got all kind of scumbags that were placed in to the join the military or go to jail crap judges were pulling with juvies. And boy were they a pain in the ass. If you don't want to be in the armed forces I don't want u there neither. My respect only goes for the people with cojones to enlist themselves. Troublemaker's belong to making license plates in state Penn, not carrying an M-16. My 2 c
     
  16. velojym

    velojym Member

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    The draft:
    "Slavery is freedom"
    "War is peace"
    The US hasn't drafted for a war for our rights since the Revolution, and even that was fought by real volunteers... rather than slave soldiers.

    I don't remember the Vietnam war having anything near a positive affect on our rights... but folks were drafted to die in it anyway.

    I'll fight in defense of my country and home, but I won't go kill strangers in their own country in the name of a bunch of geezers in Washington who'll never hold a rifle in combat themselves.
    Wanna be a leader? Then lead!
     
  17. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    I'll line up with The Amigo. I volunteered after the draft ended in 1973. There were still draftees in the Army. More trouble than they're worth, friends.

    When the fat is in the fire, I don't want anyone but a volunteer responsible for guarding my flanks and rear. If you don't want to be there, I don't want you there. The last thing needed in combat is having to depend on people nursing cases of 'conscript syndrome.'

    That's the practical viewpoint. The moral stance is that I have no right to force others to defend me. Neither do you. Nor does the nation. In the final analysis, this nation will have the volunteers needed if it is worth defending and will not have the volunteers needed if they decide it is not worth defending.

    It would be just though if we could separate the people who are not willing to defend this nation into defense-free zones and announce that enemies could hit these areas and people with no adverse consequences.
     
  18. jr81452

    jr81452 Member

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    As the only male to pass on two hundred years of family history I would not have to go if I was drafted, but I will say this, the only way you could get me to go is if they remove the rules of engagement. What is the point in fighting a war “to win the hearts and minds”? There is only one way to fight a war, kill them all. You will never get them to like you as long as you are still on their land. So do what you went to do and go home. It’s the only way to “win”.

    my .02
     
  19. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    The draft was used in the Civil War and WWII. These wars had nothing to do with our rights, huh? Your knowledge of US history is either lacking or serious skewed, friend.

    Also, I don't think a draft was used at all in the Revolution.

    Don't support a draft under any circumstances but your assertion does not fit the historical facts.
     
  20. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    Nobody "wins" a war........
     
  21. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    Really? Tell that to Adolf Hitler. Or the next Carthaginian you meet. Or in the US, try to contact a Confederate government employee. Violence, raw naked force, has settled more issues in history than any other factor.

    Suppose your next line will that violence never settled anything? I've been attacked, friend, it wasn't settled by negotiation. I won.
     
  22. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    your not getting it by what i mean by no wins a war sure they might come out ahead and claim they win but both sides have losses that cant be measured in numbers what about all the broken homes and so on and so on so noone honestly wins a war everyone looses something. and theres still nazis around are presdents family made a boat load of money from them in ww2 do some reasearch youll see the bushes supported the nazi. and the civil war was really over in 1864 there where alot of conflict for the next 10 years after that and as far as I can tell bush is the next hitler.
     
  23. johncolo

    johncolo member

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    no you didnt win theres only winners and looser in sports buddy
     
  24. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    ...And what's your point? That still doesn't justify slavery.
     
  25. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    Nothing celebrates the sacred american value of freedom quite like deciding how others should live years of their life for them does it?
     
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