Browning Hi Power 1995 Production +P+

[Bedfordtec]

I have a 1995 Hi Power made in Belgium assembled in Portugal that I bought new with less then 400 rounds through it. I normally use Winchester 115 Grain target loads. Is Federal Hydra Shock 115 or 124 +P+ Law Enforcement too hot for it? Wanted to use these for my carry ammo. My alternate would be 124 grail Federal Hydra Shock. Appreciate the input. Jim

 

[I6turbo]

Here's a site that is pretty much the Bible for questions like yours concerning the Hi Power.
The site's home page: https://hipowersandhandguns.com/index.html

Specifically to +P and +P+ ammo: https://hipowersandhandguns.com/BHPandHighPressureAmmo.htm

 

[Steve C]

+P+ Police ammo usually doesn't ruin a handgun by blowing it up and will only do that with firearms of lower quality. What it does do is damage firearms that have shot much of it by accelerated wear and breakage by battering of the weapons internals due to accelerated speed of the slide and the added force of the slide hitting the slide stop etc. The wear and battering of your Hi Power using +P+ ammo can be mitigated somewhat by installing a heavier recoil spring and use of sacrificial recoil buffers to soften the battering.

The development in ammunition has reduced the advantage of +P+ ammo over top of the line defense ammunition on today's market where it really doesn't make sense to use it over the premium defense ammo in standard and +P. Federal HST, Speer Gold Dots, Winchester PDX1 all offer reliable expansion and penetration without the downsides of +P+ ammo.

I have relegated my dwindling stock of +P+ ammo to spare mags for use in my Glock and use mostly HST's in my other 9's.

 

[cfullgraf]

I'd stick with standard 9x19 ammunition. A hit with standard ammunition trumps a miss with any thing more powerful.

Your pistol will thank you.

The development of hollow point bullets these days really offset the need for +P+ ammunition.

 

[GRIZ22]

Steve C pretty much covered it. If you look at the numbers you don't gain much in velocity (100 fps or so) which really doesn't give you that much more (if anything) in a round that is already doing 1200 fps or so. You also get more muzzle blast and recoil.

My introduction to +P+ was the Treasury Loads back in in late 70s. These were loaded to 24-25K psi IIRC. They were more a politically correct round. You can have almost a 357 round but say you were using 38s. It also expanded on the downfall of the original Super Vel ammo. Lee Jurras couldnt compete when the big boys started loading ammo like he was making. We carried them in M66 S&Ws. No problem using them in 357s. We were told you can use them in J frames. This lasted through a few quarters of qualifications until a couple of Model 60s blew up. After that remaining stocks were used up in 357 revolvers and they never ordered any more.

I will use +P in a K frame or larger or +P+ in a 357. I used to carry Federal 147gr +P+ in a 357 Model 640. Outside of that I stick with standard pressure ammo.

 

[RON in PA]

The British wore out a lot of Hi Powers using hot 9mm ammo that was also used in submachine guns. Regular 9mm amp is what I recommend.

 

[dogtown tom]

The British wore out a lot of Hi Powers using hot 9mm ammo that was also used in submachine guns. Regular 9mm amp is what I recommend.

I've read that article and believe its rooted in misinformation.
-the statement was made by someone visiting a British repair facility....where guess what you would see? (guns in for repair and not the hundreds of thousands that were perfectly fine).
-SMG 9mm ammo is not necessarily "hotter".
-few militaries have different ammo for pistols vs SMG's, it would be a logistical nightmare.
-the HP's in that story were WWII Inglis Hi Powers.....1940 metalurgy.
-FN began cast frames in 1993......stronger than the forged frame.
-there ARE very hot 9x19 loads that some companies/countries mark as "SMG ONLY" because it is intended for use in specific weapons used in adverse (arctic) conditions. This ammo may not be too kind on other SMG's either.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I wonder how concern of +p++Pp=+ ammo juxtaposes against Browning making factory .40 pistols.

I don't know one way of the other as I have no interest in anything .40 but it makes me curious.

If hot 9 is/can be an issue, what did Browning do to make .40 OK on the platform.... and if anything, can you simply replicate it?

Todd.

 

[ATLDave]

If hot 9 is/can be an issue, what did Browning do to make .40 OK on the platform.... and if anything, can you simply replicate it?

.40 BHP's are not known for their long life.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

.40 BHP's are not known for their long life.

So no special build criteria I guess. Thanks, I always sort of wondered. Not because I want a .40 but if they were somehow beefed-up, it'd be interesting for a high use/abuse 9.

Todd.

 

[WVsig]

I wonder how concern of +p++Pp=+ ammo juxtaposes against Browning making factory .40 pistols.

I don't know one way of the other as I have no interest in anything .40 but it makes me curious.

If hot 9 is/can be an issue, what did Browning do to make .40 OK on the platform.... and if anything, can you simply replicate it?

Todd.

FN switched from a forged frame to a cast frame when they bought the BHP in 40 S&W to market. In initial testing the older forged frame rails warped quickly. I can't remember the exact number but they failed quickly. Off the top of my head 2500-3000 rounds sounds right. The cast frame is stronger. They could have made a stronger forged frame but it would have cost more than doing it by casting. The 9mm moved to a cast frame for economy of scale once the forged frames were used up.

You can shoot a fair amount of +P ammo out of a BHP without it turning to dust. The problem with +P+ ammo is that there is no standard for it. All it really means is hotter than +P. How much hotter will depend entirely on who made it and when they made it etc. Also with todays modern 9mm JHP there is not reason to even use +P in a BHP IMHO. Gold Dots, HST, Ranger, Hornady etc all make standard pressure 115gr, 124gr and 147gr that perform well.

As for the longevity of the 40 S&W BHPs it is pretty good but IMHO they are horrible guns. The recoil impulse is harsh and does not lend itself to fast accurate shooting. The gun is battering your hand and itself at the same time. They really never sold well.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I have an old C series (1972) that has a metric buttload of "hot" rounds through it. since the 80s, all I can recall ever being run through it was ammo made from 115s and 124s, both loads having 5.8gr of Unique. and it saw several hundred rounds of chinese SMG 9mm (130gr actual projectile weight) that were pretty zippy.
The rifling is fairly well eroded at the breach end, but the rails, and barrel lugs are still good to go, and it still locks up tight.

 

[Rock185]

Of course I can't say what is OK or safe in your pistol, but I have used several thousands of rounds of +P,+P+, NATO and equivalent reloads in a variety of pistols and revolvers over many years. I've not seen any issues or detected any accelerated wear in any of those guns.

FWIW, Chronographed velocities of 9MM CorBon 115 and 125 grain ammo, rated as "only +P" often exceeded velocities of Winchester and Federal +P+ ammo.

 

[PaFrank]

Personally I prefer the 147 grain FMJ bullets in my Hi-Powers.. They are the only commercial round that will cycle my Luger, so I just use them for everything. More than adequate.

 

[Schlegel]

So no special build criteria I guess. Thanks, I always sort of wondered. Not because I want a .40 but if they were somehow beefed-up, it'd be interesting for a high use/abuse 9.

Todd.

They aren't identical.
They strengthened the frame when they went to cast frames ( used on both calibers) and the 40 slide is actually thicker than the 9mm slide, as well as having an extra locking lug. You can buy a 40, and get an aftermarket 9mm barrel fitted to it. Costs a fair amount, but some have done it.