Bullet comparison

[gonoles_1980]

BERB HBRN TP vs xtreme copper plated.

I'm making the following assumptions
BERB=Berry
HBRN = Hollow Base RN Thick Plated.

Assume both bullets weight the same.

Would they take the same load or would the xtreme bullet use a slightly lighter load?

I wish there was some "measure" for comparing plated bullets like there is for lead hardness.

 

[Sunray]

Plated bullets are treated just like cast bullets. You still load for the bullet weight, not who made it.

 

[MErl]

I'm not sure if they should get treated like cast in all cases. The plating looks to be quite durable. While at the range yesterday I saw many plated fired bullets on the ground. The plating was intact and the rifling did not appear to have cut through. It is likely that they were loaded lightly for competition but the impact with the ground or berm should have damaged the plating if it was fragile. Some experimentation in durability and load levels is warranted.

As for loading, if the bullets are the same weight and have the same bearing surface they should load the same. The hollow base bullet is probably longer than a solid bullet with a larger bearing surface.

 

[Blue68f100]

The TP allows you to get in the 1500-1600fps range without the plating stripping off in flight, accuracy degrading. The HB is suppose to give you better accuracy. All I can say is the plated do not give me the same accuracy as lead.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Sunray, I asked because I see different ranges in the manuals. For example using a 9mm 124 grain plated bulled from the Western Powders loading page.

124 (P) BERRY RN 2.9 839 3.5 950 33,846 1.160
124 (P) BERRY HBFP 2.5 812 3.2 918 34,556 1.060
124 (P) RAIN HP 2.7 805 3.3 911 34,000 1.110
124 (P) RAIN RN 2.8 855 3.5 958 33,846 1.160

The Berry's are both plated, the hollow base takes a lighter load than the non-hollow base. With the Rainer, the Hollow Point has a different load than the RN.

All are plated bullets, all weight the same all have different loading ranges, though the RN are close.

In these case it looks like the Plated Bullet takes a heavier load than the Hollow Base.

 

[Bronx kid]

As you can see in post #5 the HBRN is also has a shorter OAL & is seated deeper but the HB gives a little more room for the powder.

 

[Walkalong]

Plated bullets are treated just like cast bullets. You still load for the bullet weight, not who made it.

You should really stop repeating this over and over whenever plated bullets come up in a thread.


Berrys 230 gr RN .45 ACP bullets:

Our bullets are 100% copper plated and restruck in a carbide final size die for a uniform bullet. Our .45 caliber bullets are .452” diameter and with the benefit of the softer copper plating they should prove to provide you with improved accuracy. Our bullets can be loaded with any published load data for any 230gr bullet, any of the loading manuals or the powder manufacturers website should have that data for you.

Berrys generic advise under their FAQ section:

You can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet. Berry's Manufacturing does not research or publish load data, but any of the load data books or the powder manufacturers' website should have that information for you.

We guarantee our standard bullets to handle velocities up to 1,250 fps, and up to 1,500 fps for the bullets designated as TP (thick plate).

Using starting loads for lead bullets with plated bullets can result in a stuck bullet in some applications.

 

[Walkalong]

Would they take the same load or would the xtreme bullet use a slightly lighter load?

Which two bullets exactly?

 

[snakeye]

For plated bullets I have always used plated data if available. If not then I start with 80% of jacketed data and work up. I would never use lead data for a plated bullet.. Also Extreme plated are rated up to 1500 fps which is higher than some other plated bullets which are rated to 1200 fps. I have ran Extremes at jacketed data with no issues...but I tested a lot with that data to get there.

 

[1SOW]

I have run many thousands of the Bry 124 HBRN-TP.

At the "SAME" seating depth they won't run quite as fast as the flat based bullets. The hollow base does add case volume.

For my loads with n320 or sr 7625 or CSB5 the Bry takes about .1 grain more powder to run the same speed. This is using a CZ 75 Shadow and a CZ 75B.

just saying.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Walkalong - It's more comparing a Hollow Based Plated Bullet vs a Round Nose plated bullet. They're the same weight, but the loads I see then to be more for the Hollow Based.

What I'm trying to do is when I'm looking at a load and the closest recipe I see is for a Hollow Based Plated bullet and I have a Round Nose Plated Bullet, both of the same weight, is there a standard to increment for the Round Nose from the Hollow Base? Like 10% or something? (In the list above going from 2.5 for the HB to the 2.8 for the RN)

1SOW you started to answer a follow up question I was going to have. When you say the Hollow Base has more volume, I assume you mean it's longer, which is why you say at the same seating depth as the non-Hollow Base it's slower. I do notice the HB OAL is a good 1/10th of an inch deeper.

(I'm assuming RN and FP plated bullets will use the same load, just different OAL's).

 

[Walkalong]

I agree with 1SOW then.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Thanks Walkalong and 1SOW, that makes sense now that I think about it. I think

 

[vaalpens]

This has been one of the more difficult areas to put my head around it since I started reloading a few months ago. Now I try and get the overall length data for each type of bullet so that I can make adjustments to the load data when needed. If I am at the low end of the scale, then the same weight bullet with a tad bit higher overall length should still be safe. If i am at the higher end of the scale and I want to replace the bullet with one that is a bit longer, then I will make sure i go down .1gr or .2gr and then work up from there.

It would be nice if the load data could include the overall lengths of the bullets, or even a "Net Water Capacity" number so that bullets can be substituted more safely.

 

[1SOW]

At the "SAME" seating depth they won't run quite as fast as the flat based bullets. The hollow base does add case volume.

Just to be sure we're on the same page: A FLAT base bullet seated to say .200" leaves X volume below the bullet for the pressure generation.
The BRY 124 Hollow Base bullet leaves X + the space in the hollow base to generate the pressure.

The BRY's total empty space under the bottom of the bullet is LARGER, so the pressure generated is slightly LESS than the flatter based bullet.
Less generated pressure = less muzzle speed.

 

[gonoles_1980]

1SOW that was a great explanation. Thanks.

 

[FROGO207]

In regards to the Berries vs X-Treme plated. I am in agreement with snakeye about the X-Treme being able to be run a bit faster. I cut apart a Rainier, Berries, and an X-Treme 9MM plated bullet as well as a regular FMJ. The Berries and the Rainier both had about the same thickness plating. The X-Treme appeared to be about twice as thick, but not as thick as a standard FMJ bullet jacket which was over three times as thick as the X-Treme.

 

[Walkalong]

I have run the Berrys 124 Gr HBRN-TP bullet at 1300 plus FPS in .38 Super with good results. I like the bullet a lot.

 

[DC_art]

From the X-treme website:

"Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp

Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp"

This sounds pretty close to Berry's data. Are you guys running their standard plated bullets over 1200, or the Heavy Plate?