After three years I finally got my reloading room -mostly- together! YES! I'm using an XL 650 and got it because I enjoyed the 550. Anyway, I found everything to start loading 9mm. I had forgotten that I had bought a fair amount of bullseye. I used to use Unique. Anyway, I can't find all my load books and the only one I have has only a start amount. The others seemed to always have a range and a favorite picked. I'm loading platted 147gr and the book start weight was. 3.4gr. I was checking weights and then noticed that - I don't know why, yet, but I was putting out 4.4gr loads. Please help here. Is this load worth shooting? Should I pull them all. Or what is considered the upper range for this load. Thanks. Really anxious to get back to the room. Hate doing stupid things.
Bullseye, 9mm, 147gr, How much?
- Thread starter CANNONMAN
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Blue68f100
Member
If the load book only list 1 charge weight, that is normally the MAX charge. Your suppose to reduce by 10% for your starting charge.
Pull them.
Pull them.
RikSors
Member
Grats! on the xl650.
Keep in mind that a progressive powder dispenser has a +/- .1 or even +/- .2 deviation depending on powder type. Worst case scenario you’re up @4.6 which is not ideal.
I’d pull them. No worries, you caught it. That’s what matters.
Here’s the manual for the Alliant powders. Although not as comprehensive, it lists Bullseye for 124 @ 4.4 max. None for 147
https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2017/2017_Alliant_Powder.pdf
Here’s a thumbnail for quick reference:
Keep in mind that a progressive powder dispenser has a +/- .1 or even +/- .2 deviation depending on powder type. Worst case scenario you’re up @4.6 which is not ideal.
I’d pull them. No worries, you caught it. That’s what matters.
Here’s the manual for the Alliant powders. Although not as comprehensive, it lists Bullseye for 124 @ 4.4 max. None for 147
https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2017/2017_Alliant_Powder.pdf
Here’s a thumbnail for quick reference:
Hooda Thunkit
Member
Alliant 2003 book shows a 147gr XTP with 4.2gr Bullseye max.
2011redrider
Member
Lyman cast 4th Ed. book lists 2.8 to 3.5 of bullseye w a 147 gr cast boolit. Agree w others on pulling the bullets and starting over.
TfflHndn
Member
Assuming round nose profile and max case overall length, Quickload shows you over pressure with 4.4 grains of BE and a jacketed round. You're running plated, which may have a bit less resistance, but I wouldn't push my luck if it were me. Max pressure for a +p load is 38,500 psi. Your load pushes to around 40,000. If you're loading shorter, the pressure would be higher. Pull 'em. Be safe. No sense risking you or your gun.
Thanks all. What's the deal with the 147? I found all my other books. I've got 5. None of them have the 147 round nose. I see some with cast but even the mnfg. of the powder did not including the data? My books are all about 5 years old but hasn't the 147 9mm been around for longer? I've got a friend who has a bunker with 1" AR 500 surround. I think I'm going to take an old Beretta and set it in a vice with a string. Shoot a few and do some barrel measurements. I don't care about this gun or the barrel but I'm interested in what happens. I can also have the barrel x-rayed for stress. Cuz I've got a welder buddy who has to get everything exactly right. I zap the barrel first, shoot a string and zap it again. I think I'll do this till I find a failure point. I also want to re-zero the gun after every round to see what would be happening with accuracy. Anyone who wants to take a guess at what the results are going to be would be excellent. I'm going to start with the 4.3gr. If after 30rounds? I'm going to up the charge. I thing I'll try this to failure. BTW, This gun and I have a bad history. The gun's just fine. If I threw it into the lake I would not miss it. But the fish don't deserve it.
Hooda Thunkit
Member
Well, you sound like an adult, you can take your own decisions.
Have at it.
Have at it.
LiveLife
Member
Your words.
If published max charge lists 3.5 gr (Lyman #49 with 147 gr lead SWC) with super fast burning powder like Bullseye, I am going to adhere to published max load data.
Of course it's your pistol and body parts, not ours so you do whatever you want to.
But keep in mind, we have had quite a lot of "Funny thing happened at the range today" threads.
Be safe.
Update. started with 4.3gr, 147 platted with crimp. 950ft/s. Odd, I thought. really not a noticeable recoil diff from any of the +P stuff. Recoil was checked from a scale that was bolted just behind the front site. When the barrel jumps it presses the gauge. Went to 5gr. then 5.5gr and stopped at 6gr. Still not a packed load. Remember, we're behind, or rather, inside a 1" AR500 bunker. We x-rayed the, standard issued barrel and checked the slugging for changes pre and post. No cracks, no swell, no change. Next I'm going to send the barrel off to a buddy of mine who teaches at the Colorado School of Mines. I'm going to have him look at it, cut it up and tell me about it. I've have had this gun for perhaps some 20years and have thousands of rounds through it. I would have liked to have started with a new barrel but I really thought we were going to blow this thing up. Well to end this. I agree with all of you. There is no need to challenge fate. For what its worth, the closest book I found says that 3.4gr is a SUGGESTED STARTING point. Oh the case, these were old and had been shot some ten times. In the end they were cracked and yes the primers popped. I think I bought the BE years ago for a really nice Kimber 45 my Wife got me for a Christmas gift. It's off to 3.4gr and looking to see what targets look like. Thanks for all the advice. Really good stuff!
LiveLife
Member
I thought the safe reloading practice principles we were to pursue was so that we avoid over pressure situations, especially when using mixed range brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass, to reduce case wall failure/rupture, considering thinned case wall and work hardening from repeated expansion of brass and resizing?
While some may appreciate you testing to the point of failure, I will continue and recommend staying below published max charges regardless how overmax charges perform in your firearm.
For those reading this who are new to reloading, I highly recommend you not exceed published max powder charges, verify bullet setback and consider reduction of powder charges when using shorter than published OAL/bullet seating depth -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/help-for-a-new-guy-9mm.852915/page-2#post-11163911
Pressure vs OAL reduction chart - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/help-for-a-new-guy-9mm.852915/page-2#post-11163843
And once again, there are guidelines for posting extra heavy loads, especially way over published max charges - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/
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Kp321
Member
Just because a load is in the correct pressure range does not mean it is a good load. Twenty or so years ago, I bought a bunch of 147 gr lead bullets and started working on loads for them. I tried all of the faster powders I had, Red Dot, Green Dot, and Bullseye with dismal accuracy results. Had some loads that were key holing. After consulting with the bullet maker, I tried Blue Dot and everything came together.
This is only with the lead bullets, I have had no similar problems with jacketed 147's but still get better accuracy with slower powders such as Unique.
This is only with the lead bullets, I have had no similar problems with jacketed 147's but still get better accuracy with slower powders such as Unique.
LiveLife
Member
I have not come across a bullseye or action pistol match shooter who used Unique.
Most use W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol or faster burning powders and they should know about accuracy.
Here's an article on powders used for bullseye match loads - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/loads-for-the-bullseye-shooter/99418
Yup. I completely agree with LM. I had not considered folks who may be relatively new to this and will again agree with LM.I have some 50ish #'s of Unique and enjoy it in a number of applications. BE came when A friend wanted a hard hitting hard cast for a side arm while out hunting. This was for his .45. After setting that up the decision to try the above came up. My advice here is to not take my advice. Good words LM. Oh, and thanks for the links.
If you're trying to safely wring max performance from 9mm, slower powders are the way to go... not stuffing cases full of Bullseye.
Failure of the gun in question to blow up is best considered evidence of the robust construction of that particular firearm.
Failure of the gun in question to blow up is best considered evidence of the robust construction of that particular firearm.
Hooda Thunkit
Member
And that's one of the problems with trying to hotrod 9mm. The case is so small, the capacity is reached quickly with the slower powders.
Rather than going to a different cartridge to achieve the higher velocity, some will go to a faster powder, to get what they want.
There is a practical limit to every cartridge. 9mm hits it quicker than some.
Edited to add:
I'm not going to tell an adult what to do. I'm nobodies Mommy. If someone understands the possible consequences of their actions, they can take their own decisions.
Jim Watson
Member
I don't see a problem. If a pistol caliber has been loaded with smokeless, it has been loaded with Bullseye. I was setting up for Bullseye in all pistols but HP38 got back on the shelves.
Colt 1991A1 5"
9mm P 147 gr. Xtreme plated
3.4.gr Bullseye
910 fps
f 133
Below Lyman maximum for Speer 147 TMJ.
4.3 gr is excessive.
Colt 1991A1 5"
9mm P 147 gr. Xtreme plated
3.4.gr Bullseye
910 fps
f 133
Below Lyman maximum for Speer 147 TMJ.
4.3 gr is excessive.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I read it like the OP intentionally overloaded it to see what happened. That's just dangerous. Do correct me if I am wrong.
I usually just delete any "I intentionally overloaded it" threads.
I usually just delete any "I intentionally overloaded it" threads.
Jim Watson
Member
I thought he misread the scale.
LiveLife
Member
+1 and point I was making.
If I am going to wring out max performance out of 9mm, I am going to go the route of 9mm Major with well established loads tested in many pistols/barrels with slower burning powders - https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/113427-for-9mm-major-topics/
I like fast burning Bullseye powder for lighter target loads.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The OP came here and asked our advice then proceed to ignore it.
Why would you think data with only one charge weight is the starting charge weight? Like said, it is the Max recommended charge weight.
Lyman #50 data for the 9mm and Bullseye w/147gr bullet:
147gr cast bullet 2.8gr to 3.5gr max
147gr TMJ bullet 3.4gr to 3.9gr max
Pull the bullets or risk hurting yourself or worse, someone near you.
Why would you think data with only one charge weight is the starting charge weight? Like said, it is the Max recommended charge weight.
Lyman #50 data for the 9mm and Bullseye w/147gr bullet:
147gr cast bullet 2.8gr to 3.5gr max
147gr TMJ bullet 3.4gr to 3.9gr max
Pull the bullets or risk hurting yourself or worse, someone near you.
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